T-1

[Deuce130]

Because someone stated that a civilian pilot with 2000TT is more likely to fail UPT than a guy whom does not know how to distinguish a control stick from a banana. I call BS!!!

That's why.

Noone said that. Certainly not me. I said that attitude is a more likely indicator of who will graduate, not total time. And that, yes, even some guy with 2000TT can be taught something in UPT. So, before you call BS, get your sh*t straight. Now, go away.

 

[Fury220]

Ok, so...when we're all done pissing in each others' Cheerios, can we actually talk about the TOPIC that STARTED the thread?

You wanna know what I hate about FI.com? Just look at this thread.

..........

 

[SIG600]

Because someone stated that a civilian pilot with 2000TT is more likely to fail UPT than a guy whom does not know how to distinguish a control stick from a banana. I call BS!!!

That's why.

Whoever said UPT was all about learning how to fly?

It's also about learning how to fly the company way... and getting in the club. It's more dynamic than you know so why try and argue about it?

 

[TankerPuke]

UPT is all about attitude and it hurts when the payback comes. Those that have not been to UPT can't understand the issue some of us are talking about. I know people who have been to a whore-house, but I don't try and dispence advice on those that might go to one :laugh:

The FAA did a study on this a few years back and put out a training video for Civilian only Airline guys to understand what they will most likely encounter on the flight deck with ex military pilots.

Nice post...d bag.

So did the T1 run off the runway or not - I can't seem to find anything about it?

To my fellow UPT grads...you have the airplane...

PUKE

 

[LJDRVR]

Before this thread degenerates further into a military vs. civilian thing, may I humbly suggest that those of you so inclined use the search function, that topic has been "done" ad nauseum, many times before. If you are a civilian or military guy who thinks your stuff doesn't stink because you:

• Got stood up for a year
• Flew freight by yourself in broken old airplanes in all kinds of weather
• Can execute a perfect echelon turn in your T-38 without even thinking
• Fly everyday in and out of the world's busiest airspace

...then here's a newsflash for you: you haven't been in the cockpit very long and/or your head is buried up your fat SNAP behind. Nobody cares but you. The rest of us have more important things to think about and do. To that end, I'm going to attempt to start a conversation here that may return this thread to something useful and educational.

Overrun accidents occur regularly in both civilian and military aircraft. They should be preventable, but aviators have yet to devise a system or training solution to greatly reduce their numbers. The importance of stabilized approaches are beat into our collective heads, and the critical nature of SOP's are hammered by IP's, Simuflite, Stan Eval, Check Airmen, you name it.

So where's the disconnect? I believe part of the problem is in situations where we really need the structure of carefully regulated callouts and stabilized approach parameters, they're the first thing that gets thrown out the window. (SWA in BUR comes to mind. SW has several altitude gates associated with their approaches for velocity and configuration, along with a callout. The crew was so busy trying to 'make it work' that they missed the callouts.) On a sunny calm day or in the simulator when your mentally primed for it, making a decision to abandon the approach is pretty easy. You've got lot's of un-used brain cells and SA to spare. Throw in rapidly deteriorating conditions, get-home-itis, fatigue and other variables, and it becomes difficult to see the need to go-around, and even more challenging to speak up and say it. (Many of us pride ourselves on being hard-wired for that kind of thing, but truth is, few of us are.)

I don't want to make this post so long nobody reads it, so let me invite others to post their views of why overruns continue to occur with pretty alarming regularity. After a few more we can discuss solutions, techniques and ideas.

Anybody?

 

[MarineGrunt]

I know people who have been to a whore-house, but I don't try and dispence advice on those that might go to one :laugh:

I've heard deployments with you are fun......... imp:

 

[TankerPuke]

I've heard deployments with you are fun.........

In due time my friend...in due time... :cartman:

Any Vance guys know about the T1 story? I have some buds there and was curious as to their status. LATERS!

PUKE

P.S. Did this thread degenrate into a serious discussion? If not - let's all start ribbing MarineGrunt for being both CIVY and MIL...like me! WHOO HOO!!! :beer:

 

[LearLove]

http://www.thatvideosite.com/view/2041.html

 

[PHX767]

There comes a point on these windy approaches that I am sure everyone here has reached - The "jeez I hope it touches down soon before I run out of runway" point. When that point is reached, as a result of experience, the PIC must command and/or perform a go around. I have about 1500 hrs in the BE400A, the civ version of the T-1, and I have had to go around at low altitude (like in a prolonged flare) only a handful of times. ALL of those times mother nature and the jet were sending me signals - airspeed hard to stabilize, glide path hard to maintain, airspeed trend line all over the place, turbulence. These factors don't preclude a landing, they should make you aware that a low alt go around may be neccesary on this pass.

In the flare, if you still have a lot of excess energy (i.e; the plane just won't land) and a long float is encountered, it's time for risk assesment to kick in and go back up and try it again.

 

[-Xavier-]

So did the T1 run off the runway or not - I can't seem to find anything about it?

Yes it did. I cant find anything on it on the net yet. It ran off of 17 and there was a grassfire at the beginning of 35 between the threshold and approach lighting.

All is well now. The T-1 is still sitting on the ramp.

 

[Otto77]

Because someone stated that a civilian pilot with 2000TT is more likely to fail UPT than a guy whom does not know how to distinguish a control stick from a banana. I call BS!!!

That's why.

We never said that..but here is what 2000TT doesn tell..if he/she has the willingness and desire to not only learn but to be taught the AF way...its all about attitude. I have many friends that were CFI's and did great..and also have heard the famous stories about guys with sticks up their rear because they were "unteachable" when they showed up wearing their aviators on day one. That is what we are trying to say. Why so much negativity?? Did you not get accepted into the military?

 

[Superunknown]

We never said that..but here is what 2000TT doesn tell..if he/she has the willingness and desire to not only learn but to be taught the AF way...its all about attitude. I have many friends that were CFI's and did great..and also have heard the famous stories about guys with sticks up their rear because they were "unteachable" when they showed up wearing their aviators on day one. That is what we are trying to say. Why so much negativity?? Did you not get accepted into the military?

Otto77,

No negativity. Almerica07 posted a post that appears to be just facts but seemed to spark a "kill the messenger" barrage of attacks on him. I just thought I'd run interference for the poor kid thats all.

PS, I changed the link to the post-military training video cause the other one quit working from all the hits.

 

[TankerPuke]

I changed the link to the post-military training video cause the other one quit working from all the hits.

Sweeeeeettttt....

Glad to hear everything / one is OK. If I remember correctly (which is a big stretch), the T1 is a beatch to land in a crosswind??? Then again...everything I fly is a beatch to land in a crosswind...hehe.
uke:
PUKE

 

[CobraKai]

If it didn't have any pods the ghettotank would be a snap to set down in the X-wind. The Tone, has a dutchroll problem without the yaw damper on (which has to be off for touchdown, unless you want to fight it trying to get off the runway) which can make it a b!tch in the X-wind. Both aircraft take time for pilots to get good at x-wind landings. Just one more thing that makes it seem like they picked the tone specifically to teach ghettotank pilots. It took me about 1.2 years to get max x-wind landings right in the tone, still working on the ghettotank after a year, less landings in same period.

The brakes on the T-1 always seemed too small for the plane, real easy to get hot brakes.


Current AF avg approach speeds.

1. T-38
2. KC-135

 

[Fury220]

I just land in a crab. F#ck it.