SWAPA wants all FAPA Pilots

[En Mort Main]

"this can't be understated- one carrier provides a good paycheck, fantastic benefits, great quality of life and schedules, and compete by working harder and being more efficient- every pay decrease to get a foothold in the industry has been rewarded and promises kept." -waveflyer

Remember when the legacies provided all that and more....prior to the low cost carrier evolution/revelution. Remember the days when WN was the low man on the totem pole. Guess once again the means justify the end? In order to thrive someone must suffer?


EN MORT MAIN

 

[zippy32]

There seems to be a lot of opinions out there that the SWA guys are selfish for wanting a staple with pay protection and a DEN fence for the F9 guys.

I am curious as to what exactly (with specifics) the F9 guys think is fair. There seems to be a lot of outsiders that want to tell the SWA and the F9 guys what is fair, but I'd really like to hear from the F9 guys. Do you guys have some solid integration numbers that you think is "fair and equitable"? What ratio or formula is fair?

Best of luck to everyone whichever way this turns out.

 

[MILPILOT17]

There seems to be a lot of opinions out there that the SWA guys are selfish for wanting a staple with pay protection and a DEN fence for the F9 guys.

I am curious as to what exactly (with specifics) the F9 guys think is fair. There seems to be a lot of outsiders that want to tell the SWA and the F9 guys what is fair, but I'd really like to hear from the F9 guys. Do you guys have some solid integration numbers that you think is "fair and equitable"? What ratio or formula is fair?

Best of luck to everyone whichever way this turns out.

I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept for some people; this is BUSINESS! Life is not fair and sometimes you have to face reality and make the best decision for yourself or in this case, a group of individuals. Best of luck to all involved!

 

[StaySeated]

There seems to be a lot of opinions out there that the SWA guys are selfish for wanting a staple with pay protection and a DEN fence for the F9 guys.

I am curious as to what exactly (with specifics) the F9 guys think is fair. There seems to be a lot of outsiders that want to tell the SWA and the F9 guys what is fair, but I'd really like to hear from the F9 guys. Do you guys have some solid integration numbers that you think is "fair and equitable"? What ratio or formula is fair?

Best of luck to everyone whichever way this turns out.

Fair? SWA is acquiring 40 airframes worth of lift, 80% of revenue of a 1.2 Billion dollar a year enterprise, and immediately owns denver (their biggest airport system-wide with this acquisition).

If emotion is removed from the equation, the #1 guy at F9 should be placed on the SWA list based upon his date of hire and the rest of the F9 list should be blended in at a ratio of 10 to 1. This preserves the upgrade of all current swa fo's, and everyone on the new list will experience the same "seniority" as they currently hold.

Oh yeah, this ratio will result in the furlough of 20% of F9's current list. They lose all seniority (no other SWA pilots to buffer the ratio).

If you are a current SWA pilot and have a problem with this, please opine.

I will be furloughed as a result of this transaction, and I still hope that SWA prevails.

 

[Vegaspilot99]

Question for the SWA guys. After listening to the confernece call and reading all the press releases, it sounds like they plan to operate and grow Lynx. They are still deciding if it will be via Southwest or another as they put it "experienced commuter"... ie; they sell Lynx off and continue to use them as lift. My question is, is this even possible? It is my understanding (and of course I could be wrong) that with the current SWAPA contract in place all airframes flying for Southwest must be flown by SWA pilots. How could SWA sell off Lynx and then continue to use them as feed? I'm guessing everything can be negotiated, but I wanted to get your input on this as scope protection seemed to be one of the big reasons the recent TA didn't pass. Thanks.

 

[OK3]

The problem with what you propose is that it does nothing concrete for a SWA pilot, but an F9 pilot gets a huge pay raise, keeps his current seniority and has far better benefits. There is no gain at all for a current SWA pilot. The lift you say that is brought to SWA is of the wrong type of airplane, and may or may not be replaced with a 737 after route overlap is taken in to account. Why should a current SWA pilot bear that risk?

Another issue with this is that the 40 airplanes you bring is 400 pilots at the current staffing ratio SWA uses, so bringing around 700 pilots is far too many. You address this by saying 20 percent of current F9 pilots get furloughed. That is not even enough to account for the differences in our staffing, so it is not a concession.

I don't have any ill will towards any of you guys. I think you have a lot to gain if you are brought on to our seniority list, especially if we can pay protect you. For this to be a fair and equitable transaction a SWA pilot has to have something to gain. That something must be black and white, not vague references to market share or new markets.

I hope I don't come across as arrogant or unkind. I wish you the best, and hope we all walk away from this in an improved career situation.

 

[Falconjet]

Swapa also said it will NEVER go as far as an arbitrator.

Our union wants ALL F9 pilots to eventually be under the umbrella of SWAPA. It will be an interesting 2 weeks.

Good luck to the F9 folks. Hope everything works out for everyone. This could be a MAJOR win for everyone involved.

:beer:

Except the poolies.

FJ

 

[DH2WN]

As posted on another thread: SWAPA M&A committee confirms SWA and SWAPA DO NOT have to combine employee groups as opined by many on this board. They can scuttle all F9 employees after draw down. However, the judge might not like that and reward Republic with Frontier.

Looks like SWAPA and SWA are going for preferential interviews for F9 guys and gals. I recommend reading the book, "NUTS" before your interview.

 

[canyonblue]

Fair? SWA is acquiring 40 airframes worth of lift, 80% of revenue of a 1.2 Billion dollar a year enterprise, and immediately owns denver (their biggest airport system-wide with this acquisition).

Compass Airlines owns 36 jets, if we bought them where do you think we should put them. "40 airframes worth of lift" :laugh: We currently have 55 jets we just use as spares. Sit back and think of how your professional pilot career would change for the Frontier pilot, and how it would change for the Southwest pilot. Go ahead and sell me on how great a deal I am getting by this Frontier deal, then times it by 5935 :angryfire. Are both groups getting the same gain? I still don't see it, and owning Denver? Please.

 

[canyonblue]

However, the judge might not like that and reward Republic with Frontier.

After most of the posts I've read here and in other newsprint, it might just be the best for Southwest.

Looks like SWAPA and SWA are going for preferential interviews for F9 guys and gals.

Unless this goes to Republic, then I wouldn't expect to see a Frontier pilot even get an interview in the future.