SWAPA wants all FAPA Pilots

[HDA]

There seems to be a lot of opinions out there that the SWA guys are selfish for wanting a staple with pay protection and a DEN fence for the F9 guys.

I am curious as to what exactly (with specifics) the F9 guys think is fair. There seems to be a lot of outsiders that want to tell the SWA and the F9 guys what is fair, but I'd really like to hear from the F9 guys. Do you guys have some solid integration numbers that you think is "fair and equitable"? What ratio or formula is fair?

Best of luck to everyone whichever way this turns out.

Im near the rock bottom of Frontiers list and currently furloughed. If I end up on the bottom of SWA list I would be cool with that. Im sure that I wouldnt be in the front of a 737 for a while, but im cool with that too.

 

[CrownandCoke]

weighing in as a Lynx pilot here...

the potential to be on the SWA list is awesome. However, it's not realistic. Why? Because we haven't been hired by Southwest Airlines. There are some guys here (quite a few) who would not fit what Southwest wants in a pilot. Not only that, but some of our pilots are freakin 21 years old!

My personal opinion is you have an interview for the Lynx pilots. Not a long, drawn out interview about drawing holding patterns, but one of just personality. Interview us and get to know us on a personal level. If you like us, hire us. If not, thanks for trying, see you at the unemployment line.

This can go either really good for Lynx or really bad.

 

[Prog 2/2]

Question for the SWA guys. After listening to the confernece call and reading all the press releases, it sounds like they plan to operate and grow Lynx. They are still deciding if it will be via Southwest or another as they put it "experienced commuter"... ie; they sell Lynx off and continue to use them as lift. My question is, is this even possible? It is my understanding (and of course I could be wrong) that with the current SWAPA contract in place all airframes flying for Southwest must be flown by SWA pilots. How could SWA sell off Lynx and then continue to use them as feed? I'm guessing everything can be negotiated, but I wanted to get your input on this as scope protection seemed to be one of the big reasons the recent TA didn't pass. Thanks.

I said it before, this deal is all about Lynx.

Forget the integration red-herrings, and the associated bs, Lynx is the threat to every FO on the SWA property.

Think those upgrades are a long way off now? Just wait till your company has a "regional partner".

 

[waveflyer]

Who says the Q has to pay less than the 737? I know it's very popular to think that a planes economics rests on pilot pay- but that's some fuzzy math. An operation's costs have so many other factors involved that $50 or a $100 extra for pilots isn't the deciding factor. There are so many assumptions- a Q going to Aspen could be a good investment for wn while keeping our rates. How about Jackson hole? Burlington? How many markets don't make sense with the 737- but do w/ a Q? How many more people would be able to fly on southwest? How about Santa Barbara? How about supplemental routes on short haul stuff- adding frequency can stimulate demand and create a bigger market- it's one of the reasons the majors put up with the RJ despite it's costs (in addition to dividing the union)

Feeders can be a huge positive- just not at sub-standard wages and with non-Swapa pilots. I'd fly a Q- in a heartbeat- IF it paid right and was scheduled right. = must be SWAPA

ie: there are a lot of opportunities for an efficient modern quiet turboprop like the Q in wn's system. If the ball is dropped and they operate lynx seperately - it will be devastating to Swapa bring along the Lynx guys (regardless of windfalls) and it sends a lot of messages to management and the industry about the appropriate role for 121 pilots- and it gives the F9 guys the percieved furlough protection they want.

I must emphasize though- Swa is a long way from furloughs- Swapa is 6000 pilots strong- who all fly their butt off- and they will take you in like family - with 6k pilots- each one sheds an hour - and the furloughs are avoided- and that's IF management voices their need for that. So relax about doomsday- This deal can be good for everybody if you think about it the right way

 

[MILPILOT17]

Who says the Q has to pay less than the 737? I know it's very popular to think that a planes economics rests on pilot pay- but that's some fuzzy math. An operation's costs have so many other factors involved that $50 or a $100 extra for pilots isn't the deciding factor. There are so many assumptions- a Q going to Aspen could be a good investment for wn while keeping our rates. How about Jackson hole? Burlington? How many markets don't make sense with the 737- but do w/ a Q? How many more people would be able to fly on southwest? How about Santa Barbara? How about supplemental routes on short haul stuff- adding frequency can stimulate demand and create a bigger market- it's one of the reasons the majors put up with the RJ despite it's costs (in addition to dividing the union)

Feeders can be a huge positive- just not at sub-standard wages and with non-Swapa pilots. I'd fly a Q- in a heartbeat- IF it paid right and was scheduled right. = must be SWAPA

ie: there are a lot of opportunities for an efficient modern quiet turboprop like the Q in wn's system. If the ball is dropped and they operate lynx seperately - it will be devastating to Swapa bring along the Lynx guys (regardless of windfalls) and it sends a lot of messages to management and the industry about the appropriate role for 121 pilots- and it gives the F9 guys the percieved furlough protection they want.

I must emphasize though- Swa is a long way from furloughs- Swapa is 6000 pilots strong- who all fly their butt off- and they will take you in like family - with 6k pilots- each one sheds an hour - and the furloughs are avoided- and that's IF management voices their need for that. So relax about doomsday- This deal can be good for everybody if you think about it the right way

Nice post!

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

You do not know what you are talking about

Yes, that's correct, but FAPA is in a better position than TWA ALPA was, because they have two suitors rather than one. If they refuse SWA's demands to waive their scope, they have RAH in their back pocket that has vowed to operate them separately.

The AA of purchase TWA was a put together quickly to derail a merger with America West backed by Boeing money for aircraft. The former TWA CEO had renegotiated the leases on the TWA Boeings, saving about $30 million. That CEO took that $30 million to Europe two weeks later and put a deposit on Airbus 318/319s. Boeing wanted that CEO ( Bill Compton) gone in the AWA deal. It was two years in the making, the AA/TWA took about 1 month to gain steam. Compton kept his job, for awhile.

Don't make excuses for ALPA throwing TWA Councils 1 and 3 under the bus.

TWA was asked to declare bankruptcy in order to make the deal happen. TWA was not in Ch. 11 before the AA deal. It is much the same as AMR acquired Air Virginia and made in AE for $.10 on the dollar.

It's not personal, just business.

Mergers are always tricky. SWAPA would be smart to make sure all the pilots are added to the seniority list for the same pay rates. It illiminates the whip-saw potential.

A union's job is to protect it's members and lobby for it's members best interest, regardless of the position of the airline may be in. I think SWAPA already understands that.

 

[StaySeated]

Stop wasting your energy on lynx. The entire operation will be divested well before the last airbus is transitioned. SWA already has a buyer for the certificate. How else do you think they will keep Bedford from upping his ante?

Bedford gets $50MM instead of $40MM. (DIP paid in full, plus interest, plus "slush")

Bedford gets $3.5MM just for writing the first proposal.

Bedford gets approximately $18MM for the RAH unsecured claim.

Bedford gets 10 Q's for a steal.

If you think that SWA, Bedford and Menke are not chatting over dinner than you need to wake up.

This won't be much of an auction.

 

[Cardinal]

Edit: Nevermind, I'm not gonna lower myself to this.

 

[Cardinal]

.....

 

[texman]

Who says the Q has to pay less than the 737? I know it's very popular to think that a planes economics rests on pilot pay- but that's some fuzzy math. An operation's costs have so many other factors involved that $50 or a $100 extra for pilots isn't the deciding factor. There are so many assumptions- a Q going to Aspen could be a good investment for wn while keeping our rates. How about Jackson hole? Burlington? How many markets don't make sense with the 737- but do w/ a Q? How many more people would be able to fly on southwest? How about Santa Barbara? How about supplemental routes on short haul stuff- adding frequency can stimulate demand and create a bigger market- it's one of the reasons the majors put up with the RJ despite it's costs (in addition to dividing the union)

Feeders can be a huge positive- just not at sub-standard wages and with non-Swapa pilots. I'd fly a Q- in a heartbeat- IF it paid right and was scheduled right. = must be SWAPA

ie: there are a lot of opportunities for an efficient modern quiet turboprop like the Q in wn's system. If the ball is dropped and they operate lynx seperately - it will be devastating to Swapa bring along the Lynx guys (regardless of windfalls) and it sends a lot of messages to management and the industry about the appropriate role for 121 pilots- and it gives the F9 guys the percieved furlough protection they want.

I must emphasize though- Swa is a long way from furloughs- Swapa is 6000 pilots strong- who all fly their butt off- and they will take you in like family - with 6k pilots- each one sheds an hour - and the furloughs are avoided- and that's IF management voices their need for that. So relax about doomsday- This deal can be good for everybody if you think about it the right way

I agree, I don't have a jet ego. The q needs to be flown by swa pilots. We need to stop the regional take over that has happen the past 15 years. plus I would luv to fly back to all the fun airports. Get me some ski bunny luv, Or just chill at the cigar bar in ASE.