Swapa/swa Ta

[mt2]

Swapa & Swa Ta

As a poolie just wondering where the TA is at these days?? I haven't heard anything in a while except final language is being worked on. Anyone one have anything on the progress of the agreement ??

 

[Daddy]

Probably vote complete by end of May

 

[murano]

The T/A is more secretive than the atomic codes. There are some rumors floating around that the Alaska ALPA union has our tentative pay scale already. Any Alaska guys confirm this?

 

[GuppyWN]

mt2,

I had a really sarcastic post to reply with but I'll somewhat restrain myself.

I'd be REAL surprised to see you in class before 2011.

Biting my tounge,
Gup

 

[Whataburger]

mt2,


I'd be REAL surprised to see you in class before 2011.

Biting my tounge,
Gup

Another quality post from the "doom and gloom committee."

We don't know much of anything. There is a growing anti-codeshare group, the loudest barks are comming from folks like Gup which doesnt represent anywhere close to the majority of the group, Most of us are optimistic this company will survive most problems, I will vote NO for anything that contains any codeshare language w/o triggers, and the TA will pass 65/35. What is beyond that nobody knows but God and Kelly.

Hoping to put this contact behind us by May.

Good luck, keep swimming, it's worth the wait.

 

[GFunk20]

LOL, the 1% commitee.

Mt - You have as much info as we do it seems. I believe the SWAPA BOD is going to meet up next week to vote and decide whether to pass the TA on to the Pilots for a vote. (I am sure it will be).

Best case, we get the details by late this month or early next month, take a month or so to vote on it and then get a ratification by end of May or early June.

That's best case. Either way, keep swimming, we've all been in the Pool at some point. It is well worth-it and this place will be that much better once you do arrive on property!

 

[PropPiedmont]

I heard once the TA passes a 100 plane order for the new C-Series will be placed and growth will resume in three years.

 

[slaquer5]

mt2,

I had a really sarcastic post to reply with but I'll somewhat restrain myself.

I'd be REAL surprised to see you in class before 2011.

Biting my tounge,
Gup

I will bet a months pay we will be having classes this year. JMO

 

[Splert]

I will bet a months pay we will be having classes this year. JMO

I hope you are correct. Unless of course you are out of work and not being paid at the moment.

 

[Accett16]

OK GuppyWN & slaquer5

Do you have any facts/something concrete or is this just what the shuttle driver is saying these days? Your theories are yours, but can you back it up with anything for those interested poolies?

 

[slaquer5]

OK GuppyWN & slaquer5

Do you have any facts/something concrete or is this just what the shuttle driver is saying these days? Your theories are yours, but can you back it up with anything for those interested poolies?

I don't want to come off as arrogant,but I am right a lot more than I am wrong.

 

[pilotgolfer]

I will bet a months pay we will be having classes this year. JMO

I'll take that bet. I make $310 a week from the state of Virginia so thats $1240 vs what $90K (isn't that what you guys make a month?)

Now thats my kind of bet!!

 

[K-Mart]

Nobody knows what is going to happen with hiring in the future year.

Call the PD and ask them. I had heard they were all farmed out to different HDQ positions which if true, is not a good sign. Again though, nobody knows.

 

[Dude]

Our Board of Directors meet next week to discuss and vote whether to send this agreement to the members. You would have better luck finding out where Hoffa was buried than being briefed on the contents of this agreement. Tight-lipped bunch over there in DAL.

As far as hiring goes.........who knows. Good luck.

No Codeshare!

 

[Yahtzee]

No Codeshare!

 

[PinnacleDude]

Flying with a member of the BOD. Says they do not know when they will meet to discuss the Agreement in Principle. Could be last week of March or 1st week of April. His guess is 1st week of April.

Lots of codeshare discussion. However, he hasn't seen the final language yet either so it is really hard to say what we do or do not have at this point. I recommend keeping the powder dry and making decisions when the language comes out.

Spent a long time in the pool. Some dark, dark days. But the good news is SWA is a really super place to work. Everything I am hearing is that there will be no hiring this year. But things can always change depending on what happens in the industry.

 

[GuppyWN]

OK GuppyWN & slaquer5

Do you have any facts/something concrete or is this just what the shuttle driver is saying these days? Your theories are yours, but can you back it up with anything for those interested poolies?

Not handy but give me a day or two and I'll find one of many articles in which Mr. Kelly speaks of "growth." He is on record saying WN will have 2 fewer hulls JANUARY 2011 than we do today. That's not good news for poolies and absolutely irks me that we are downsizing the fleet as we announce codeshare.

I was trying to be a "good boy" and not vent too loudly on a public forum but since I'm being labeled as a malcontent I might as well let it fly. It can be summed up in one sentence.

Codeshare will kill the Southwest Airlines we know today.

Someone said no to codeshare without triggers. I agree but who controls the triggers and what are they? If it is revenue OR load factor triggers those numbers can be easily manipulated by raising or lowering fares. Then what?

I wasn't trying to rain on your pool party. WN is, IMO, the best airline in the world. I love it here. I don't have fuselage envy, I have job protection and scope worries. Sometimes those emerge as lashing posts to unintended people.

My apologies to you but should know both sides of the story.

Gup

 

[mt2]

Thanks to all for the info. I always like to get all 3 sides of the story. Hoping the swim won't be too long.

mt2

 

[The Prussian]

ya know....(just thinking)....sometimes people just label themselves....(just a thought)....

carry on....

 

[Capn Butthead]

Hey gup.....thanks for the honest response. I too am worried about codeshare. I look at my last airline (a regional based in cvg.....thats easy) we got a pretty good contract but pissed a lot of people off with a 89 day drinking recess. In this time and day of unethical behavior by management at other companies we have to protect ourselves. I look at my old airline that is being ripped piece by piece. It is a shell of what it used to be. You can ask anyone that was there for sometime and they loved it. I look at Comair the same as Southwest in some degree. There were a lot of older and senior people there that were very proud of the company and would stay there forever. That is gone. They had no protection. The airlines are becoming a shell game. We have to protect ourselves!

I also agree with people that we need to see the language. Im not opposed to some codeshare with stuff we cant do RIGHT NOW! But i do want protection for us. I agree with you. Southwest is at a crossroad right now. We can not lose our culture or people. I hope the right thing is done.

With that being said...I love this place! I love going to work. I work with awesome people on the ground and in the air. I do trust our leaders because we have always been the best airline. But...this is a trying time. A lot of people see Gary as an accountant. He has to fight that image and show us that he cares for the culture of southwest. He has in the past and I think/hope he will now. Like I said, I do think our leaders are different that any other airline but we are looking at a big deal here...

Sorry to rant. But I really do luv Southwest and I dont want to see us become like every other airline. I could have went to several other places but I wanted to come to WN since I was a kid. It is a dream come true to be here and Ill do anything to make sure we stay the same.....

 

[Tejas-Jet]

My biggest issue?....Codeshare. Thats what lots of us are waiting for knowing what that can mean for the future of SWA.

Having said that, we still have some "koolies" out there that are more concerned with their "retro" checks than they are with the codeshare that will affect all of us forever. Stepping over dollars to get a few nickels.

We are staying stagnant, while 2 other carriers see growth by being associated with our name. Kind of a "Brad Pitt-Roseanne Barr" marriage, if you will.

This is not sitting well with lots of us.

While I do enjoy my job here...I also realize that this is no longer Herb's airline. Gary has been running the show for a long time, and it is different. Some of the pilots here have not yet realized that.

While Herb had a way of rallying the troops in the hard times, some of what I heard from Gary in his recent MTF's, disappointed me.

Herb made us want to go to war for him...Gary makes us want to hide in the closet and put a blanket over our heads...and hope for the best.

Hopefully I am wrong...but thats what I see. Hopefully Gary proves me wrong.

 

[eaglesview]

Not handy but give me a day or two and I'll find one of many articles in which Mr. Kelly speaks of "growth." He is on record saying WN will have 2 fewer hulls JANUARY 2011 than we do today. That's not good news for poolies and absolutely irks me that we are downsizing the fleet as we announce codeshare.

I was trying to be a "good boy" and not vent too loudly on a public forum but since I'm being labeled as a malcontent I might as well let it fly. It can be summed up in one sentence.

Codeshare will kill the Southwest Airlines we know today.

Someone said no to codeshare without triggers. I agree but who controls the triggers and what are they? If it is revenue OR load factor triggers those numbers can be easily manipulated by raising or lowering fares. Then what?

I wasn't trying to rain on your pool party. WN is, IMO, the best airline in the world. I love it here. I don't have fuselage envy, I have job protection and scope worries. Sometimes those emerge as lashing posts to unintended people.

My apologies to you but should know both sides of the story.

Gup

You are right on the money and should be worried. Take it from someone watching my airline UAL being outsourced more and more every day. We all joke that we used to have a place to eat called the United cafeteria at O' Hare. Today it is the RJ crew lounge.

Any money you give up to not have scope is worth it as the airline will stagnate at best. Even Southwest, which has had a history of good employee relations will get in bed with the lowest bidder.

On the bright side you would be able to have lunch in the cafeteria at work with all bright eyed "I can't believe I'm in a jet teenagers.'

 

[GFunk20]

We all joke that we used to have a place to eat called the United cafeteria at O' Hare. Today it is the RJ crew lounge.

On the bright side you would be able to have lunch in the cafeteria at work with all bright eyed "I can't believe I'm in a jet teenagers.'

That was me just last year! I enjoyed the mornings eating the omelets in the UA cafeteria. The turkey sandwich and beef stew was a good combo too. As well as all the dirty stares from mainline folks...

 

[AAflyer]

That was me just last year! I enjoyed the mornings eating the omelets in the UA cafeteria. The turkey sandwich and beef stew was a good combo too. As well as all the dirty stares from mainline folks...

Just wait till someday when a ER-170 in SWA colors pulls up, or some codeshare from Mexico... It will be just as funny!!!! Don't you think!!!

AA

 

[GFunk20]

Mexico sure, but I will bet you anything that our folks won't allow any domestic codeshare.

We've learned from the unfortunate mistakes of others on that.

 

[StopNTSing]

Mexico sure, but I will bet you anything that our folks won't allow any domestic codeshare.

We've learned from the unfortunate mistakes of others on that.

Bro, how about dialing down the hubris a notch or three. Until we see the final language of this AIP, I wouldn't be so sure about your above two prognostications. As Guppy and T-J mentioned earlier, GK's comments and his shifting positions leave me unconvinced that he's learned ANYTHING from the mistakes of others.

No Codeshare, period....or it's a no-vote from me!

 

[slaquer5]

Mexico sure, but I will bet you anything that our folks won't allow any domestic codeshare.

We've learned from the unfortunate mistakes of others on that.

I will take that bet what do you want to put on it

 

[PinnacleDude]

Mexico sure, but I will bet you anything that our folks won't allow any domestic codeshare.

We've learned from the unfortunate mistakes of others on that.

Actually, I have heard there may be a few exceptions to the rule, but will wait and see what the language says.

In addition, we are only one bad bankruptcy judge away from added domestic codeshare. I hope we never end up in that situation, but never is a long time.

As I recall the UAL/NWA/DAL guys all ended up with much of the RJ flying under duress.

 

[Bobby Orr 4]

No Codeshare, period....or it's a no-vote from me!

I agree with you. I have the no codeshare sticker on the old brain bag. One problem though. We already have codeshare via SL 32.
Say we vote this down. I would vote no on a contract that I feel is not in the most junior guys interest. We go to mediation. The mediator cannot keep codeshare out of the contract because it is already here.
We need protection and hard limitations on codeshare. Not a 5% growth target. Did not meet the target. Sorry we tried. Weak language in SL 32. Looking forward to seeing the TA if the BOD gets this one to us. To be continued...

 

[GFunk20]

Agreed. There really isn't much to discuss yet, but I do think they have good grip on the domestic stuff.
Keeping fingers crossed for whatever they decide in this meeting...