SWAPA "recommends REJECTION"

[SWA/FO]

It looks like after further review, the BOD recommends REJECTION

"Resolution/Motion: WHEREAS, upon further review and analysis of the
Interim Contract Side Letter, BE IT RESOLVED that the SWAPA Board of
Directors recommends REJECTION of the Interim Contract Offer."

This should be interesting....

 

[CoopDog]

No worries mate.....

Talked to my SWA bud tonight. He tells me they've conducted a small informal poll recently and it passed by a nice margin, 70-30 (ish).

No hanging chads goin on here!

 

[tredding@swa]

don't worry, be happy mon!

Since rumors are what this is "mostly" about...

My SWA f/o bud told me... that a recent "informal" poll showed about 50/50 on the vote, with many votes apparently holding out until the final days.... Hmmmmm.

All things being as they are ("U" going Ch.11,who knows - UAL next???? DAL and AMR are studying a "re-think" on how to run their companies...) I have to restate just how FREEKIN' happy I am to have a place in this pool.

While I am trying to remain optimistic, I believe that we could see a rather rapid shot of dryness in our (not to distant) futures.

Why, do you ask?

SWA has been (once again) V E R Y conservative since 9/11. Expansion has been slowed to a mere trickle. Taking time to re-group, look at the competition and evaluate what the next move is going to be sounds like "Classic" SWA management to this floater.

For those who know - smells like 1991-1994 all over again. Recession, war, furloughs, gloom & doom, labor issues, Whoa is us!!

Yet SWA, with a very unconventional management team & style, developed a growth strategy that made the company larger & stronger when the recession ended. To the company's defense, when the rest of the world was going crazy and the economy was ROARING from 1994-1999, SWA kept a modest cap on growth and bankrolled a TON of cash. That cash is what is keeping this airline from taking a welfare check from Uncle Sam today! (Read;Conservative = good)

Personally, I think those of us who are lucky enough to be wet are in a FANTASTIC position!!! T H I N K about it... where else would you rather be in today's environment!?!?!?

The freightdogs are doing well, good for them. It's just not for me, doing all of that vampire hours flying.

As far as the "other" people hauling airlines.... I just don't see much positive news out there. One exception - JBLU. However, 28 A320s does not constitute much of a threat, yet. Competition is a very good thing, it keeps everyone on their toes!

SO - enough of my opinions... thanks for reading. I am sure that I will "enjoy" some of your responses... I always do!

Have a great day! Tredding

 

[dhampton]

Coop Dog,

Votes may be changed at anytime. Voting is done on the Internet and your last vote is the only one that counts. So 21% of the 70% you mention may still change their votes by the 19th.

 

[FZRA]

Just Curious....
What is the pilot's proposed pay per hour going to be?

 

[CoopDog]

maybe votes will change, but.....

Hi dhampton,

Maybe votes will change, and your point is completely valid, and may very well be the case. We'll just have to wait and see.

The only point I was trying to make was that an informal poll showed a good reason to believe that it might pass. It's only a poll, but frankly, I don't put a lot of stock in them anyway.

As far as changing the votes, I tend to believe that more no's will become yes's if they do get changed. Just my opinion though. Seeing more buddies hitting the streets and watching their career's get flushed down the toilet tends to have a big effect on one's own personal career mindset. Mine was flushed about 9 months ago, but somehow, thankfully, I surfaced here in this SWA pool. After Sunday's big announcement by U and today's by AA, I just think saying no to this offer has got to make a nay sayer think long and hard. (Again, just MY opinion here).

Oh, and by the way, I sure hope you weren't a math major. Just kidding. I know what you meant to say though. Take care.

 

[falcon20]

Let me say this, the ones against are a vocal minority. Some people tend to lose sight of the fact that the industry sucks and Industry average pay that we are going for is declining by the day. Hell if we reject this, than in 06 we wil probably be close if not leading pay and not a leg to stand on for greater raises. PEOPLE SEEM TO FORGET WHERE THEY CAME FROM AND THE FACT THAT THEY KNEW WHAT THE CURRENT PAY RATE IS.

 

[StarrBuck]

I don't know who SWA uses for the polling, but many airlines use the services of the Wilson Polling Center.. They have an unbelievable record of predicting which way these votes are going to go.. If it is Wilson, and they say it is going to pass, I'd be shocked if it doesn't... Like everyone else, just happy to be part of this pool..

S.B.

 

[Bake]

Hey SB,

I know this is kinda like tellin ya that you have a booger hanging out your nose, but you might want to check some of your spelling there on your profile. Seriously, I'm not pickin' on ya, just trien to helpout.

 

[tredding@swa]

EIEI - Oh

I'd give just about anything to be where you are Bake.... (#1) but I really hope you are renting a 172 or something to stay current while working as an English teacher.....

No boogers here either... or is that iether????

Have a great day!! Tredding

 

[Rob Beeks]

CoopDog:

Actually, I will go out on a limb and say that most fencesitters or vote changers will eventually vote "no." Since the basics of the offer were first revealed on June 18, the actual contract language (as composed by SWA's lawyers) was finally finished and made available to SWA pilots. There were quite a few disconnects between reality and what we thought the offer contained. Also, ATA signed a contract which surpasses this extension offer in many areas. End-game pay is even comparable.

During the last few weeks, more negative aspects associated with options, profitability-based raises, etc., have surfaced and been realized by a growing number of SWA pilots. So, the voting differential is tightening (IMO). Will it be enough to reject the extension and open up full contract negotiations in September 2003 (one year prior to the current amendment date)? I don't know.

Here's the latest newsletter to the pilots from management.

"INDUSTRY NEWS

US Airways has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. It is going to give 110 planes back to the companies from which they were purchased. Employees face layoffs and wage concessions.

In the first half of 2002, United Airlines (UAL) lost an average of $4,700,000 per day. Many analysts predict it will also file under Chapter 11 bankruptcy if not given $1.8 billion in government loan guarantees.

In the first half of 2002, American Airlines (AMR) lost an average of $5,950,000 per day. It announced that it was retiring 83 aging aircraft, deferring deliveries of 35 new ones due this year, and canceling as many of its other orders as it can. It is also cutting 7,000 jobs by March 2003, with 40% of those being from the Pilot and Flight Attendant ranks.

In the first half of 2002, Delta Airlines (DAL) lost an average of $3,200,000 per day.

In the first half of 2002, Southwest Airlines averaged a PROFIT of $700,000 per day.

While Southwest faces an uncertain and bumpy road ahead, we can all be thankful for a sound business plan and cost control measures that insure our job security. In the coming days, as you make decisions about issues concerning Southwest and yourself, take a moment to reflect on the current state of the airline industry. Reflect on why we are in this fortuitous position now and how we avoid joining the ranks of unprofitable airlines in the days to come. Consider the future value of your Profit Sharing Contributions, your 401K, and most importantly, your job security. The key is long term thinking - nothing worthwhile happens overnight."

 

[CoopDog]

Rob:

Thanks for responding. I wish I had more details on the offer. I tried to get a copy to educate myself a little more, but due to software problems and the file size, I was unable to open it. So I have to rely on the facts relayed to me by my SWA buddies who've seen it.

Unless these guys are just blowing smoke to make me feel like I have a shot of getting out of this pool sometime in the next year or so (who knows?), and I doubt they are, they have given me the indications that it looks like it will pass. That's all I'm really trying to say. But as I said before, we'll simply have to wait and see. A poll is just that, a poll. Doesn't really amount to much. One may tell a pollster (if that's what you call them) one thing, and then cast his vote completely the opposite way when it counts.

I'd also like to say that my perspective is one from the outside looking in. As a poolie we are all just looking for any good news that will get our butts out of this pool before winter sets in. (Besides, I can't ice-skate worth a crap). So if it looks like a yes vote on the contract will get us into the school house sooner, then I would imagine that a lot of us would like to see you guys vote yes. But if a yes vote will ultimately hurt our career and future at SWA, then obviously that's not good and it may be better for all for it to ultimately be turned down and negotiated further. That may, however, not be good news in the short term for us poolies. Me, well I'm a big picture kind of guy, and I appreciate the concerns all the nay sayers may have. But I'm also unemployed with bills to pay, so all I can do is hope for the best. Just want to get on with things. This waiting is getting just a tad old (My personal understatement of the year!)

Good luck to all you guys and your vote.

Coop


btw, If you don't mind, I'd like to know where management came up with:

"It is going to give 110 planes back to the companies from which they were purchased." (in reference to USAirways). I think they have their facts a little screwed up.

 

[rodeopilot]

To the guys not on the property yet,

A no vote is not a nail in your coffin, nor is it snubbing an offer in an otherwise turbulent time. You need to know the facts about this offer before you pass judgement on it. This is why many of the voters are swaying to "no". Believe it or not, there are a limited number of options are offered in this proposal, and you are in the class hired after they are gone, then youre hosed. There are many no voters here looking to the future and trying to avert another A-Z scale from occuring here. We arent looking to break the bank, and I would highly doubt that this vote will effect wether or not you are brought on at SWA. I would give the management team a little more credit than that. They already have a strategy for what to do if it passes or fails.

 

[Race Pilot]

New Pay Rates??

Someone else had asked for the proposed hourly rates with no response. If I remember correctly SWA pays a little differently, by the trip or something like that. If that's true, maybe a better question is what would a SWA pilot make under the proposed contract extension for a normal month at minimum guarantee or however SWA does it? Anyone at SWA care to elaborate

 

[AirlineWannabe]

A thought for poolies to consider... If the pilots vote no, then the company's cost structure will be lower, at least through '04. It would allow the company to expand even more aggressively while the rest of the big boys are trying to recover over the next couple of years.

My personal (barely informed) opinion is that the union should vote no and make a flowery statement about how these are tough times in the industry and the pilots are showing leadership by foregoing a substantial pay raise (until 2004) so the company can continue to grow. Then, in 2004, the pilots would be able to make substantial improvements to their contract after 2 years of significant growth.

my 2 cents

 

[Rob Beeks]

"btw, If you don't mind, I'd like to know where management came up with:

"It is going to give 110 planes back to the companies from which they were purchased." (in reference to USAirways). I think they have their facts a little screwed up."

CoopDog:

Hey, you're not on the property yet, and you are already catching on to SWA management techniques. It usually takes a couple years to catch on.

The message in the newsletter is pretty clear. Management is swaying the reader to a "yes" vote, which in my opinion greatly benefits management objectives of keeping their labor groups well below industry average pay. IOW, they are doing their job.

 

[Rob Beeks]

AirlineWannabe:

I LUV the way you are thinking! You will make a fine addition to the SWA pilot corps.

Poolies: Read AW's post (two above this one). In my opinion, this outcome will be in YOUR best interest.

Don't confuse a "no" vote to mean we want a war and are trying to be belligerent. This proposed extension originated out of interest-based talks--Not a full contract opener.

A "no" vote merely means "No, thanks. We'll wait another year and open up the entire contract for renegotiation."

Even though our contract is not amendable until September 2004, the contract calls for talks to begin a year earlier (i.e., in one year--Sept 03).

 

[falcon20]

Beeks says to keep labor groups below industry average pay, we will be industry leading if concessions continue at the other airlines. Read the paper. Why would anyone pass up a raise, take it now and get more in 05' negotiations.

 

[SWA2000]

I agree with you falcon1. I have voted yes for the extension and here is why:

When I came to SWA I knew what I was doing. You have to know! If you are going to spend 7K to get a job you would want to know a little bit about the company. I knew I would never fly a 747. I knew I would never have London overnights. And I knew I wouldn't make as much per hour than the other guy/gal. But, I also knew I was going to work for an airline that had 27yrs of consecutive profits, an airline where all the employee groups seem happy and enjoy their jobs, an airline that offered a faster upgrade to Captain than the average for the industry, and most importantly to me, an airline that has NEVER FURLOUGHED AN EMPLOYEE. Can anybody name an airline other than the cargo carriers that offers those same qualities?

So here are the facts as I see it:

- If I was anywhere else (big 5 or 7 whatever) I would be
unemployed with no idea as to how long.
- I am currently working under a contract that expires in 2004 at
which time the union has said it will go for IAP. Which I am all for.
But, in lieu of the current situation the industry is in I am not so
sure I will want my pay to be par with US AIR, UAL, etc...in 04'
- I am being offered descent (I didn't say great) pay raises and a
substantle amount of stock options which will have a strike price
near the 52-week low mark.
- And if it passes I know in 2005 I can probably upgrade and
based on flying 100 trips a month I will make $189,348 (not-
including stock-options or per diem.) Now again, tell me what
airline that at my 5yr mark I would make that kind of money.

All this for an additional 18 months added on. I think the opportunity cost for rejecting is too great.

Hang in their poolies. It want be too much longer.


-

 

[AirlineWannabe]

SWA 2000: I want to clarify your position.

You believe that by, accepting the proposed raise, you are ensuring continued profitability, adding to the harmony of the companies cooperative culture, supporting faster pilot upgrades and preventing furloughs.

That position seems counterintuitive to me. I don't want to put words in your mouth/post so I want to confirm I have stated your position correctly.

On one hand, you researched the company and are comfortable accepting lower salary structure for the good of the company but you estimate having an industry leading paystub for a 5th year pilot.

Keep in mind that I am on the outside looking in but I think a little delayed gratification would go a long way.