SWAPA NO voters

[SWA Bubba]

"Going nowhere"? We had already TA'd 18 out of 20 Sections when the merger was announced.

As I said, when you start opining about our internal business, you sound foolish.

I can tell you that when I start flying with SWA pilots, I won't be bringing up or discussing SWAPA's past history, because it isn't my business, and it would be in bad form . . . . but hey, don't let that stop you . . . . :erm:

Not sure why you guys want to keep revisiting this stuff, but I'm done with this conversation. Schlong!

I say "going nowhere" because you were ready to strike. And the fact that you crowed about, how you'd already TA'd 18 of 20 sections is misleading, because a lot of it is not contentious in the first place. Somehow I doubt you'd already TA'd payraises of 20-30%, but then reverted to your 8%.

And to answer your questions on why -I- keep revisiting this, it's because YOU revisited it first, bitching about how SWA seems to have screwed you:

"I, along with most other AAI Captains, got a whopping 8% raise, after 6 years of negotiations. We would have gotten 20-30%. I'll be on this contract for 4 years. Thanks a bunch."

And you're right; I don't purport to know your internal business. Nor do I care. However, when you guys picket airports in uniform, give union soundbites to the press about being underpaid, and publish your 97% strike vote as a bargaining chip, you've made it in the public forum. Not me.

And as much as you'd like to imply that you would have gotten even your "measly 8%" without the acquisition, everyone in the aviation world (including YOU) know it's not true. You still haven't answered the question: When, exactly, would you have gotten the 20-30% you claimed? And if you were "just about to get it," why did you give in? The answer is you would NOT have gotten even what you did get after the acquisition was announced, had there been no acquisition. That's why you were gonna' strike. Is this helping your memory now?

Bubba

 

[tankerhead]

Bubba darlin, you have let your self-control slip away. You started out not long ago with some intelligent questions and valuable insight. But running your trap about last year's raise at AAI is making you look bad. You have NO idea about what we would've gotten and you're not really entitled to opine about it. So, here's your "thanks"....

Thanks for buying us, and the great future your company will give us.

But you can go pound sand if you think ANY of the 1741 AAI guys owe you thanks for our paltry pay increase. Buzz off on this subject and you'll look a LOT smarter.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Bubba darlin, you have let your self-control slip away. You started out not long ago with some intelligent questions and valuable insight. But running your trap about last year's raise at AAI is making you look bad. You have NO idea about what we would've gotten and you're not really entitled to opine about it. So, here's your "thanks"....

Thanks for buying us, and the great future your company will give us.

But you can go pound sand if you think ANY of the 1741 AAI guys owe you thanks for our paltry pay increase. Buzz off on this subject and you'll look a LOT smarter.

Tanker,

You're right about loss of self-control in some of my earlier posts. In fact, I agree that the "Thank SWA" comment was over the top. For that alone, I sincerely apologize. However, I do not apologize for taking Ty Webb to task for some of the things he posted, primarily:

a: Ty's (intentional?) skewing of the wage numbers to imply a much poorer overall contract benefit, and further falsely implying that there was no further benefit as the contract progressed. (FOs got 20-30% payraises, and most captain steps got more than the 8% he complained about. Plus there were three more captain steps and four FO steps added to further increase wages. And, of course, 8-10% COL increases over the four years. More importantly, however:
b: Ty's sarcastic implication that somehow he got screwed (or less) because of SWA's purchase of Airtran. "We got a whopping 8%.... We would have got 20-30%... Thanks a bunch."

You're also absolutely correct that I (and you, for that matter) have no idea what you "would have gotten" if the acquisition hadn't happened. However, I think it's safe to assume that after the acquisition announcement, Fornaro protecting his personal payday probably turned him into a more reasonable negotiator.

You also said that I'm "not entitled to opine about" AAI contract wages. Ordinarily, I'd agree with that, and in fact generally keep that to myself. However, when Ty Webb basically tells the FI community that Southwest's acquisition hurt him, and turned the 20-30% he would have got on your contract into only 8%, then I DO feel entitled to rebut. You know?

Tryin' to stay civil,
Bubba

 

[luvfan]

AAI guys paid dog$hit rates.

98% ready to strike.

SWA announces airTran acquisition.

AAI pilots get big pay raise.

...doesn't have anything to do with the acquisition...and even if it did it isn't as much as it would have been if there had been no acquisition.

because then Ty would have forced them to give him an even bigger raise.

Get it?

 

[Ty Webb]

I'm sure you guys think you're right, but all you're doing is showing how little you know about it.

What do you care, anyway? It doesn't really have anything to do with you.

PS., Last time I checked, a tenth year pilot going from $144. to $155. is a 7.6% increase. I rounded it up to get 8%.

 

[waveflyer]

Ty- I lost all credibility when I went over 4000 posts- you're a little late to that party-
But since you're right there w/ me:

Are you saying that the economics of being part of the SwA system won't yield better pay over the course of your career than a stand alone AT?

Think, long term here and answer honest- would you rather have had this deal NOT happen?

And please, no spin- just answer the questions

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty- I lost all credibility when I went over 4000 posts- you're a little late to that party-
But since you're right there w/ me:

Guilty as charged . . .

Are you saying that the economics of being part of the SwA system won't yield better pay over the course of your career than a stand alone AT?

No, I think it's safe to say that I will make more cabbage as a SWA pilot.

Think, long term here and answer honest- would you rather have had this deal NOT happen?

And please, no spin- just answer the questions

Well, let's put it this way . . . . I'm viewing it probably much like you are. I was OK with the way it was before, but I'm cautiously optimistic for the long haul. It's tough to go from 29% to 61%, even at SWA . . . . but when the list is done, it's done, and we can either choose to be happy, or to be unhappy. I plan to be happy. . . . It's kind of stupid to have one of the best jobs in the world and make yourself miserable!
Hell, I'm looking forward to just getting back in the air again. :beer:

 

[waveflyer]

Well said man

 

[JT12345]

Codeshare is the cancer of this industry and I would like to think you'd rather not farm out YOUR job to the next lowest bidder.

Gup

Oh man,

I come from the regionals. I know what it is like for 10 donkeys to go after the same carrot and all it does is bring everybody down.

 

[JT12345]

JT

I think it more of how SWA operates. It typically has been SWA does not want to serve a city that they can have at-least 15 flights a day. Herb calls this the low hanging fruit. there is no way SWA can keep all the AT cities. Some will go away others will go from 5 flights a day to over 15 flights a day.

PS trust me you not be going overseas in 10 years for a job.

As a high skilled worker u are probably right. Pray everyday the others rise up for more in terrible places where they work like we once did in the last century, and lessen the disparity between our nations.

 

[dicko]

Bubba darlin, you have let your self-control slip away. You started out not long ago with some intelligent questions and valuable insight. But running your trap about last year's raise at AAI is making you look bad. You have NO idea about what we would've gotten and you're not really entitled to opine about it. So, here's your "thanks"....

Thanks for buying us, and the great future your company will give us.

But you can go pound sand if you think ANY of the 1741 AAI guys owe you thanks for our paltry pay increase. Buzz off on this subject and you'll look a LOT smarter.

This is the only time that 'Tankerhead' and I have ever agreed on anything.

 

[tankerhead]

This is the only time that 'Tankerhead' and I have ever agreed on anything.

You may have me confused with someone else? Or not. Pretty sure we haven't danced.

 

[sixlegs]

I know..... let's all vote NO....... let's help out the Trannys and keep them where they are...... I'm sure Ty likes it right where he is at. I want to keep him, and his kind ...... right where they are. Hopefully, the AT guys will realize they are getting the shaft and vote NO...... End all SWA tyranny! Vote no to save your careers.......

What is the difference between SWA tyranny and a Tranny?........ Just the why!

Check back in a while and see how the oppressed tranny's did.

Six Legs

 

[slaquer5]

I know..... let's all vote NO....... let's help out the Trannys and keep them where they are...... I'm sure Ty likes it right where he is at. I want to keep him, and his kind ...... right where they are. Hopefully, the AT guys will realize they are getting the shaft and vote NO...... End all SWA tyranny! Vote no to save your careers.......

What is the difference between SWA tyranny and a Tranny?........ Just the why!

Check back in a while and see how the oppressed tranny's did.

Six Legs

Brother, you know we are no longer allowed to take liquor off the airplane

 

[SWA Bubba]

This is the only time that 'Tankerhead' and I have ever agreed on anything.

Glad I could bring you two together. Hey, I already admitted I was a little over the top, but I couldn't let what Ty Webb said go without comment. Kinda like you guys not letting SWA bashes go without comment. Ty said (or rather implied) that he personally was screwed by SWA. That he only got an 8% payraise in your current contract when he "would have got" 20-30%, if not for SWA. How exactly IS that? Is is just him, or do the rest of you guys really believe that? You make a broad accusation like that without a shred of proof, you should be taken to task.

Ty, you said: "What do you care, anyway? It doesn't really have anything to do with you." I care because I see it as you slandering my company. I can imagine if I had made similar statements about Airtran and then said it nothing to do with YOU guys. I'm sure you would have had something to say.

Alright, go ahead and have the last word here, and then we'll all get over it. Hopefully no lasting hard feelings.

Bubba

 

[Ty Webb]

Dear Bubba-

I'm writin' this reeaaaal sloowwww, 'cause I know you don't read too fast.

I wasn't sayin' nuthin' bad 'bout SWA, but I don't 'xpect yore gonna understand that, on account of you fallin' out of that tree on your haid when we was little.

I know sometimes you gets mad over stuff you don't understand, but that's OK, I'm still yore friend.

Your buddy,

Forrest.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Dear Bubba-

I'm writin' this reeaaaal sloowwww, 'cause I know you don't read too fast.

I wasn't sayin' nuthin' bad 'bout SWA, but I don't 'xpect yore gonna understand that, on account of you fallin' out of that tree on your haid when we was little.

I know sometimes you gets mad over stuff you don't understand, but that's OK, I'm still yore friend.

Your buddy,

Forrest.

Actually, I liked the FIRST way you wrote this post better, before you completely replaced it with the Forrest Gump version; the first one was more, well... you know,... you:

Bubba,

Grow the f___ up.

Seriously.

​

If you didn't mean to say anything bad about SWA, then you've shown some really some bad communication skills on occasion. WaveFlyer made a comment that you got an "improved contract w/o striking" due to the acqusition. Your reply to that idea was: "I, along with most other AAI Captains, got a whopping 8% raise, after 6 years of negotiations. We would have gotten 20-30%. I'll be on this contract for 4 years. Thanks a bunch." The implication in your reply to Wave is that the aquisition hurt you in that the contract netted you only 8% raise instead of 20-30% you would have gotten had there been no acqusition. Do you really not see that implication? That's a serious question, by the way.

Tell you what-- I will just ask straight out and clearly. And don't worry, I'll still be your friend regardless: Do you, Ty Webb, really believe that SWA's acquistion of Airtran, caused you to suffer under a substantially lower-paying AAI contract, than if there had been no acquisition? There, a simple yes or no, and there will be no more misunderstanding. Either you said it poorly, or the rest of us heard it poorly, or what was implied was indeed what you meant.

A simple answer and it will all be cleared up, there won't be anymore mud-slinging or name calling, and we can all go back to being friends. Sound reasonable? (And don't forget to type your answer slow, so I can read it, okay? )

Thanks.
Bubba

PS By the way, thank you very much for the professional, curteous, and mature advice in your original post. I'll take it under advisement.

 

[GuppyWN]

Bubba,

Would it make you feel better if Ty said yes? Does it really matter?

Negotiations are over. Therefore I say we cut 'em some slack until the vote closes.

Gup

 

[OldManPilot]

Today I cast my ballot for the proposed integration agreement. I wish I could say it was an easy decision but it was not. It would have been a lot easier had it not been a forced decision. I wish the negotiations would have been smoother without the drama. It would have been easier to digest if I had at least gained 1 seniority number as an improvement from the earlier agreement. Had the 450 junior pilots at AT not been completely and utterly thrown under the bus. I will get over it and move on, but the loss of over $100K due to the stupidity of our union leadership will weigh heavy on my mind for a while. I am sorry to our SW brothers and sisters that had to sit back and watch this debacle knowing full well what would happen. I hope that you at SW do realize that MANY of us were extremely disappointed in the behavior of our union representatives.
But as I said, its time to move on. I look forward to eventually getting to enjoy the many benefits that come along with working for SWA.

Cheers.... Somebody hand me a beer!!!

 

[luvfan]

hey old man.

Couldn't agree more.

CHEERS!!!