SWAPA might like SWA proposal

[cappydd]

when the details are released it would really be helpful for that Q and A thread so some of us can figure out where we fall within the system.

 

[Flycatcher99]

Lear 70: Can you explain how the ATL fence works? Obviously not all AT pilots are based in ATL, nor would ATL support all AT pilots (in terms of size). Will the fence protect all AirTran pilots? Will it involve only the 717, not the 737? What happens to AT based in MKE, MCO etc. on the 737? Thanks.

Amazing that SWA pilots are actually trying to glean rumors from AAI folk that may or may not be providing inaccurate rumors, intentionally or unintentionally.

 

[Lear70]

Lear 70: Can you explain how the ATL fence works? Obviously not all AT pilots are based in ATL, nor would ATL support all AT pilots (in terms of size). Will the fence protect all AirTran pilots? Will it involve only the 717, not the 737? What happens to AT based in MKE, MCO etc. on the 737? Thanks.

I would, but I don't have *ALL* the facts, such as at what rate the aircraft will be pulled down from ATL, how many they're looking to put through training and in what aircraft and out of what base they'll pull those pilots for training (although I have enough to figure out how it shakes out for where I'll personally sit when the music STOPS in terms of training, assuming no one senior to me bids out of ATL).

However, I will tell you that NO 737 pilot will remain based in MCO or MKE once they "cross the fence" after their training (unless they can hold MCO with their system-wide seniority and there's a vacancy - not many of us).

Because MCO and MKE weren't yet staffed on 9/27, there were no MCO- or MKE-based pilots that were "protected". As such, when each AAI 737 pilot from MCO or MKE goes through training, they will become ATL-based, unless they bid to another SWA domicile that has a vacancy open, according to their combined system seniority (which means they'll go sit reserve somewhere in all likelihood).

If there aren't sufficient positions in ATL, then the most junior ATL pilot gets displaced with displacement rights when someone senior comes out of training.

The 717's in MCO will initially stay, don't know for how long, I wasn't told fleet plans for anything other than ATL's initial base composition (our MC may not know, either). There are no 717's in MKE.

 

[Lear70]

It's quiet because it's supposed to be quiet. What's odd about that?

So far, all this board has provided is inaccurate rumors and negative innuendo likely from whisper campaigns, all courtesy of alpa and aai folk.

Who's being negative? As far as accuracy, I guess we'll see in a week or so when the language gets hammered out.

Before we all start the hand shaking and backslapping, I suggest we wait for the real deal to be announced.

I don't know about "the real deal", but I'll still shake the hand of any Southwest pilot I meet, regardless of what happens going forward. Most of you are great people, it's been a pleasure to meet several of you from this forum, and I look forward to meeting more of you in the future. :beer:

 

[NuGuy]

The AAI guys have the demographics on their side. No matter the fence, in 10 years, they'll own half of the top of the list anyway and the pre-93 SWA guys will all be gone at that point.

Nu

 

[Lear70]

The AAI guys have the demographics on their side. No matter the fence, in 10 years, they'll own half of the top of the list anyway and the pre-93 SWA guys will all be gone at that point.

Nu

Our junior CA's got mixed in with your senior F/O's in such a way as to prevent that. That's why there are different ratios all throughout the list, your Negotiating Committee covered their bases with the ratios.

In 10 years I won't have even climbed back to my CURRENT seniority percentage at AirTran. Most of our senior F/O's and junior CA's are in the same boat.

 

[slaquer5]

Our junior CA's got mixed in with your senior F/O's in such a way as to prevent that. That's why there are different ratios all throughout the list, your Negotiating Committee covered their bases with the ratios.

In 10 years I won't have even climbed back to my CURRENT seniority percentage at AirTran. Most of our senior F/O's and junior CA's are in the same boat.

Brother, in ten years you will not recognize this place. I do mean in a good way.

 

[dh82dvr]

Brother, in ten years you will not recognize this place. I do mean in a good way.

I hope you are right about that.

 

[Lear70]

Brother, in ten years you will not recognize this place. I do mean in a good way.

I hope you're right; it may end up being the leap of faith we have to make...

 

[Secret Squirrel]

The Swapa site is oddly quiet. Only 1 or 2 threads with zero specifics. I think that's another reason why some on this board are stating where the leaks are coming from.

On another note I wanted to thank you and Lear for your professionalism and continued commitment to the process.

E

Seems like a couple people at atnALPA do not agree with the direction of the MC and leaked bits of information to try and derail the talks. When that did not work they actually stopped the MC from going to DALLAS. All the talk about trusting the MC and recalling those who were medelling in the MC and now this. It all seems very unprofessional to me. Now we can't stop talking about an agreement that is not finished and may never be finished if some get there way. I can only shake my head.

 

[Skybus]

Been around the block a long time. Trust me on this one, you can take that leap with a great deal of confidence. There is no place like it and you will soon understand what I speak. I can assure you that you this is the best stroke of luck you have ever encountered no matter what the final "details".

Hang on and enjoy the ride.

 

[redflyer65]

Seems like a couple people at atnALPA do not agree with the direction of the MC and leaked bits of information to try and derail the talks. When that did not work they actually stopped the MC from going to DALLAS. All the talk about trusting the MC and recalling those who were medelling in the MC and now this. It all seems very unprofessional to me. Now we can't stop talking about an agreement that is not finished and may never be finished if some get there way. I can only shake my head.

That's very sad. The actions of PCL are well documented in trying to derail the talks before they got started. I sure hope this doesn't turn out like other negotiations where a small vocal group ruins a fantastic future for the rest of the group. Going to be interesting.

 

[maxblast72]

Guys,

I know we are all starved for information but SWAPA, SWA Management, and ATN MC agreed to keep a lid on things until both the SWAPA BOD and ATN MEC vote to determine whether the deal is fair enough to let the pilots vote on it. No one on here has even half the facts. Let's be patient and let the details come out before rushing to judgement. In the meanwhile, contact your rep and let them know your opinion on whether you want a vote.

 

[maxblast72]

The actions of PCL are well documented in trying to derail the talks before they got started.

Don't worry about PCL128. He already took a bullet for wasting the MC's time.

 

[slaquer5]

Don't worry about PCL128. He already took a bullet for wasting the MC's time.

I can not begin to tell the damage he has done. He is obsessed with Alpa. Will be ironic when he realizes how Alpo is just using him before they toss him to the curb, with all there empty promises to him.

 

[Kharma Police]

Been around the block a long time. Trust me on this one, you can take that leap with a great deal of confidence. There is no place like it and you will soon understand what I speak. I can assure you that you this is the best stroke of luck you have ever encountered no matter what the final "details".

Hang on and enjoy the ride.

I can't wait for the FUTURE!

 

[Lear70]

Been around the block a long time. Trust me on this one, you can take that leap with a great deal of confidence. There is no place like it and you will soon understand what I speak. I can assure you that you this is the best stroke of luck you have ever encountered no matter what the final "details".

Hang on and enjoy the ride.

Thanks for the encouragement, I'm sure it'll be fine, uncertainty gets to us all sometimes.

Guys,

I know we are all starved for information but SWAPA, SWA Management, and ATN MC agreed to keep a lid on things until both the SWAPA BOD and ATN MEC vote to determine whether the deal is fair enough to let the pilots vote on it. No one on here has even half the facts. Let's be patient and let the details come out before rushing to judgement. In the meanwhile, contact your rep and let them know your opinion on whether you want a vote.

Sorry Max, I'll go back to lurking...

 

[Secret Squirrel]

That's very sad. The actions of PCL are well documented in trying to derail the talks before they got started. I sure hope this doesn't turn out like other negotiations where a small vocal group ruins a fantastic future for the rest of the group. Going to be interesting.

It is not PCL anymore. Sounds like it is the group that had PCL recalled. That is the ironic thing. They kicked out PCL for meddling in the process yet are neck deep in it. Now the Union seems split. They have started to back peddle a bit but the way things turned out are a mess. I don't know if our MC has even made it back to Dallas to resume negotiating. No real information is making it to our group.

 

[Nindiri]

Quite an impressive smear campaign being run against some members of the MEC.

 

[redflyer65]

Quite an impressive smear campaign being run against some members of the MEC.

Wow. Just wow.

 

[dicko]

Wow. Just wow.

Hey Red,

It's the AirTran way .... It's not pretty, but it is interesting. Kind of like 'police activity' in College Park, Atlanta.

One of the problems has been the rate and accuracy of the information that was released. It varied with the Reps, from closed mouthed to wide open. Unfortunately the "wide open" mouths were not fully educated. The reason for the disparity was two fold; The agreement was in its infancy and some of the Reps fired before they aimed.

After being wound around the "not fully educated" pole, I'm going to shut up and wait for the details. I am hopeful, and I do trust our Merger Committee. I always have.

Cheers.

 

[GuppyWN]

What? You've been one of the biggest "Give me relative or see you in court" guys on here.

Why, now, are you playing nice, being patient and curious about life on the bottom without throwing a fit?

Gup

 

[waveflyer]

What? You've been one of the biggest "Give me relative or see you in court" guys on here.

Why, now, are you playing nice, being patient and curious about life on the bottom without throwing a fit?

Gup

Seriously Gup???

 

[GuppyWN]

I'm an angel!

 

[waveflyer]

Angels don't start conflicts because they're bored waiting on the full language.
Cmon man, be good- and if not, be smart

 

[redflyer65]

As stated earlier, I think most of us may have posted things we've regretted later. I'd say Dicko has been pretty consistent the past month with getting this done and moving on.

As far as the internal AAI politics, I hope the minor vocal dudes don't ruin it for the good guys (and I say that without knowing the full language myself), but we can all evaluate it later when it makes it to our doors.

 

[Kharma Police]

Angels don't start conflicts because they're bored waiting on the full language.
Cmon man, be good- and if not, be smart

Very good example of WWMCD (What Would Michael Corleone Do).

 

[swa737-700]

Why do the AT union guys feel at liberty to divulge the AIP particulars? If the SWA guys are not releasing info, I assume that was the ROE when the meeting adjourned. Not very classy on in my opinion.

 

[tankerhead]

Soo, you're sayin we should "Stay classy"?

 

[Kharma Police]

Why do the AT union guys feel at liberty to divulge the AIP particulars? If the SWA guys are not releasing info, I assume that was the ROE when the meeting adjourned. Not very classy on in my opinion.

I agree. Old scores are trying to be settled now too, if it wasn't for my career that they are trying to mess with, I might find it entertaining!