SWAPA calls all former AirTran pilots

[MILF Hunter]

Calling all former
AirTran pilots...

There are a significant number of you within our SWAPA ranks, bringing a wide range of experiences from your time at AirTran.
Your unique perspectives will offer valuable insight and we want to hear from you.

PLEASE SEND YOUR NAME AND
HIRE DATES AT EACH AIRLINE TO
[email protected]


This was a half-page ad in our Feb 15 issue of the Reporting Point. I'm hearing the number may be over 100. This is something I doubt any other SLI has dealt with...at least not this large a percentage. SWAPA seems to think there is something significant about this. I wonder if an arbitrator will agree?

 

[400ADude]

I wonder why there are so many former Aircritter pilots at SWA?

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Sounds like swapa is getting desperate. Almost like getting opinions from ex-girlfriends. How do you think they are going to answer and do you think the arbitrator will give any merit to their feelings? Pretty weak.

 

[StopNTSing]

Sounds like swapa is getting desperate. Almost like getting opinions from ex-girlfriends. How do you think they are going to answer and do you think the arbitrator will give any merit to their feelings? Pretty weak.

Is it just the natural human inclination to root for the underdog, which causes so many from the FI peanut gallery (a curious number of whom are or claim to be Delta pilots) to automatically assume the worst from every action that SWA & SWAPA make?

Based on your statement, I guess it would be smarter for SWAPA to completely ignore these pilots and any insights they may have?

 

[roughneck]

It sounds to me like Swapa is trying to quantify where the 15% annual attrition rate at AirTran went. If the majority of those guys were leaving, paying $8000 out of their pockets for a type, and giving up seniority to come to the bottom of our list it would be an important fact to make note of.

Any arbitrator would be interested in hearing about the mass exodus from AirTran to SWA during the whole career expectation discussion.

I don't think Swapa sounds desperate at all. I think they sound like they are building a super case to protect my rightful place on the combined seniority list.

 

[Kharma Police]

Is it just the natural human inclination to root for the underdog, which causes so many from the FI peanut gallery (a curious number of whom are or claim to be Delta pilots) to automatically assume the worst from every action that SWA & SWAPA make?

Based on your statement, I guess it would be smarter for SWAPA to completely ignore these pilots and any insights they may have?

Very true, I think it would be wise for ALPA to request from it's members the same type of information from former Southwest pilots who left to go to Delta, United, FedEx, etc. in the 80s and 90s.

 

[roughneck]

Very true, I think it would be wise for ALPA to request from it's members the same type of information from former Southwest pilots who left to go to Delta, United, FedEx, etc. in the 80s and 90s.

I think the total number is 3 but might be as high as 5 but it won't really matter. I think the Arbitrator's question will more appropriately be, "How many left SWA to go to AirTran?" The answer there is zero.

 

[flynvixen]

Very true, I think it would be wise for ALPA to request from it's members the same type of information from former Southwest pilots who left to go to Delta, United, FedEx, etc. in the 80s and 90s.

I bet those guys wish they would have stayed at SWA. I also know the former citrus guys that I have flown with were glad to get out and on with us. They have also told me that we have a virus inbound and to get ready for the professional malcontents.

I think the training center and check airmen are going to have a full plate keeping the malcontents in line and getting them up to our standards both in the airplane and in the bar.

The ALPA job killing machine has brainwashed most of them to be sure so get ready for the fight, it will get ugly.

I just saying

 

[Kharma Police]

I bet those guys wish they would have stayed at SWA. I also know the former citrus guys that I have flown with were glad to get out and on with us. They have also told me that we have a virus inbound and to get ready for the professional malcontents.

I think the training center and check airmen are going to have a full plate keeping the malcontents in line and getting them up to our standards both in the airplane and in the bar.

The ALPA job killing machine has brainwashed most of them to be sure so get ready for the fight, it will get ugly.

I just saying

I would think the former Citrus guys are pissed that they left AirTran because they POSSIBLY might have had better seniority with the SLI if they had stayed. Hindsight and all..........

As far as a fight, the AirTran pilots have none. We understand the process and have no problems accepting the outcome. If you keep up with the threats and intimidation then eventually you will reap what you sow. The irony is that you are eroding on your own, the precious culture you claim to represent. The AirTran pilots are sitting back and scratching our heads at you guys. I'm trying (obviously rather poorly) to try and reason with you guys but the more I read the more I realize you and others like you have already become what you despise from other airlines.

 

[GuppyWN]

I'm not buying the intent of this thread.

Everyone knows a career at Airtran is no more or less valuable than a career at Southwest. If it were you'd have evidence of 100's or even 1000's of Airtran pilots that quit to advance their careers.

Gup

 

[GuppyWN]

I would think the former Citrus guys are pissed that they left AirTran because they POSSIBLY might have had better seniority with the SLI if they had stayed. Hindsight and all..........

I know there is not a snowballs chance you believe that. It's laughable at best. Guess the Great Lakes guys ought to stay instead of go to a major if called?

Gup

 

[Kharma Police]

I know there is not a snowballs chance you believe that. It's laughable at best. Guess the Great Lakes guys ought to stay instead of go to a major if called?

Gup

I understand, in your mind you can't get past anything but a staple but I will give it a shot anyway,

Example: An AirTran pilot in the upper half of the seniority list leaves AirTran and is now at the bottom of Southwest's seniority list.

SLI award comes out with his former classmates from AirTran POSSIBLY several numbers senior to him.

Result: If he had stayed at AirTran he would be in a more senior position with the combined list.

 

[GuppyWN]

I love your spunk Kharma.

Gup

 

[Dude]

Very true, I think it would be wise for ALPA to request from it's members the same type of information from former Southwest pilots who left to go to Delta, United, FedEx, etc. in the 80s and 90s.

Yeah.....but it's 2011 and our situation is different. Would you apply the same logic to a guy that came to SWA after Eastern went down and the only jobs at EAL were for Scabs?

We understand the process and have no problems accepting the outcome.

I wished you believed that, but I don't believe you do. It would make sense to GLADLY accept any outcome because of the obvious benefits.

 

[Marko Ramius]

I'm not buying the intent of this thread.

Everyone knows a career at Airtran is no more or less valuable than a career at Southwest. If it were you'd have evidence of 100's or even 1000's of Airtran pilots that quit to advance their careers.

Gup

No dog in this, just a driveby lurker, but I agree. Besides it doesn't take that much brain power to figure out that there were several UsAirways pilots who took jobs at AmWest during their furlough so it's not all that precedented. I'm sure you could go back through a lot of mergers and find the same. There are probably some UA furloughees at CAL, maybe even some NW people at DAL, etc.

 

[roughneck]

There are probably some UA furloughees at CAL, maybe even some NW people at DAL, etc.

I doubt you find UAL captains leaving to start over at CAL or NW captains leaving for Delta no matter what year in history you look back on.

 

[PapaWoody]

I'm not buying the intent of this thread.

Everyone knows a career at Airtran is no more or less valuable than a career at Southwest. If it were you'd have evidence of 100's or even 1000's of Airtran pilots that quit to advance their careers.

Gup

Please clarify this for me, Gup...is this sarcasm? Because obviously a career at Southwest is and always has been more valuable than a career at AirTran. Also, there is evidence that 100's of AirTran pilots quit AAI to advance their careers with SWA. Is it a major point? Maybe, maybe not, but I do think that it is one more talking point during the whole "career expectations" discussion.

Fraternally,
PW

 

[Tanker Clown]

Aren't there a lot of SWA guys who left for AirTran?

 

[Marko Ramius]

I doubt you find UAL captains leaving to start over at CAL or NW captains leaving for Delta no matter what year in history you look back on.

There's a rather 'famous' case of a UAL Captain leaving to go to Jet Blue a few years back. You can probably find something about it if you search on here. It was famous for PR reasons, but it was hardly unique. Life happens, remember all of the people AA tried to fire during their merger because they had previously committed the crime of leaving AA when their future was darker than TWA's?

 

[scoreboardII]

Aren't there a lot of SWA guys who left for AirTran?

only the ones who were "let go".

 

[ultrarunner]

At the end of the day, you have a company with nearly 6000 pilots acquiring a company with about 2000 pilots. In the latter, I would suspect ALPA to be gone, and the SWA group to essentially "direct" how the integration goes.

I'll concede the ALPA thumpers think they will prevail, and that's fine. If you think you can get the votes from those numbers, god bless you....

But at the end of the day, SWAPA is going to look out for SWAPA, political rhetoric aside.

No different than if AAI had the votes and was swallowing up the smaller fish.

Or have I got this all wrong?

 

[dogg]

So the moment that the merger is complete and SWA has protected their own and the Airtran people become SWA people then how will SWA protect them. Maybe 150 former Airtran /new SWA pilots are happy and the rest have a really bad attitude....Does not make sense.....the SWA corporate types must have some cards up their sleeves.........I am guessing it will be a gladiator show and someone "aint comin out alive"......Good sport for all of us who could care less.......

 

[fracpt]

Cant we all just get along and let the unions do there work without breaking down our culture on this board. come on there has to be something else to talk about. It will be what it will be and lets get everyone on board grow this airline and keep our jobs for what I pray is a very long time. I wish you all would just shut up,fly planes and drink beers. keep this job fun. I am thankful the few on here are just a small minority of both pilot groups.

 

[Lear70]

At the end of the day, you have a company with nearly 6000 pilots acquiring a company with about 2000 pilots. In the latter, I would suspect ALPA to be gone, and the SWA group to essentially "direct" how the integration goes.

I'll concede the ALPA thumpers think they will prevail, and that's fine. If you think you can get the votes from those numbers, god bless you....

But at the end of the day, SWAPA is going to look out for SWAPA, political rhetoric aside.

No different than if AAI had the votes and was swallowing up the smaller fish.

Or have I got this all wrong?

Not quite.

Yes, ALPA will be gone (by default, with SWAPA representing 2/3 of the combined pilot group or more, there won't even be a vote to determine who represents the pilots of the combined list), but that doesn't give SWAPA carte blanch to direct how the SLI will go. The SLI, by law, has to be agreed upon by both carriers or go to arbitration.

Until the lists are combined, each side is still represented by its respective Collective Bargaining Agent and they have to work together to make this whole puzzle fit properly. Yes, SWAPA, by being the acquiring carrier's union and the accepted surviving entity has the ability to direct HOW the airlines will integrate operationally (negotiating their own transition agreement that has to respect AAI's existing CBA rules until the integration is complete), but as for the SLI? No, SWAPA and AAI ALPA will have to work that out together, which I'm sure they will.

We all have faith in the process and yes, we all have our 2%'ers, but the vast majority of our pilots are good people who come to work, do their job, have a good time, take care of our people and our customers, and go home to their families, and will blend in just fine to the SWA family. No worries, mate... :beer:

 

[Dizel8]

It would make sense to GLADLY accept any outcome because of the obvious benefits.

Wow, you even live on this planet?

No, I don't work at AAI!

 

[gobyebye]

[/QUOTE]As far as a fight, the AirTran pilots have none. We understand the process and have no problems accepting the outcome. If you keep up with the threats and intimidation then eventually you will reap what you sow. The irony is that you are eroding on your own, the precious culture you claim to represent. The AirTran pilots are sitting back and scratching our heads at you guys. I'm trying (obviously rather poorly) to try and reason with you guys but the more I read the more I realize you and others like you have already become what you despise from other airlines.[/QUOTE]


Remember....your scratching your heads based on the few moronic posts you hear from the minority on the web boards. Don't base your positions or reactions to the few extremes on these "lash out" boards. Instead search for the true info when it comes out from the unions.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Cant we all just get along and let the unions do there work without breaking down our culture on this board. come on there has to be something else to talk about. It will be what it will be and lets get everyone on board grow this airline and keep our jobs for what I pray is a very long time. I wish you all would just shut up,fly planes and drink beers. keep this job fun. I am thankful the few on here are just a small minority of both pilot groups.

What he said!!!

 

[FlyinGuy]

we all have our 2%'ers

Are you talking about you and Ty and how ya'll got called out by your union?

 

[madjack]

I look forward to the day that this is all over and we are one combined list...I go back and forth on how we should integrate "fairly"...I am a 10 year FO at SWA looking at having 800 AAI CPs seat protected ahead of me...based on SWA retirements my upgrade is about 3 to 5 years out...if we grow because of the merger maybe sooner...I did not go to JB or AAI because SWA was major airline and growing...I would have gone to DAL at the time because my friends went there and they had a much better contract (thank GOD i did not get hired)...I went the "safe" route and it may come back to haunt me as far as my ultimate seniority goes after integration...if I had been interested in rolling the dice for a quick upgrade at JB or AAI I would have taken that chance...I did not...it seems a little disingenuos to now fault the AAI guys who took the chance with a "start up" and now may end up ahead of me...if I really was a gambler I would have gone to JB or AAI and gotten the quick upgrade...I have been an FO a long time...I live a comfortable life, have a great schedule and work at a great place where people try to get along and management has not tried to screw us, they even value us...these are all GREAT reasons to work at SWA, they are INVALUABLE reasons...I want this company to be a great place after we integrate...like the AAI pilots I just want a "fair" outcome...should the AAI pilots be rewarded for their gamble at the expense of my seniority?? That is the concept that, as selfish person, I have a hard time accepting...should I be financially rewarded for taking the safe route (upgraded at the expense of AAI seniority), or should I accept that this merger will probably not affect my upgrade that much (even if it goes relative)?? How would I feel if I was a 7 year SWA FO or the bottom SWA FO?? I do know this that every AAI CP that comes to SWA and retains his seat will receive a huge pay raise (I made 154K last year flying 700 hours, my SWA CP made 274K last year flying 720 block hours). Of course I want to upgrade, I fly with SWA CPs 6 months senior to me who have been CPs for 4 years...I have lived with a good contract and make more money than many AAI CPs make...do the AAI deserve to be ahead of me because they upgraded before I did?...I do not know, and I want to be OK with whatever the outcome is, I still want to look forward to coming to work even if I have to fly for a 7 year AAI CP, but part of me will not feel that is fair...

 

[dicko]

I look forward to the day that this is all over and we are one combined list...I go back and forth on how we should integrate "fairly"...I am a 10 year FO at SWA looking at having 800 AAI CPs seat protected ahead of me...based on SWA retirements my upgrade is about 3 to 5 years out...if we grow because of the merger maybe sooner...I did not go to JB or AAI because SWA was major airline and growing...I would have gone to DAL at the time because my friends went there and they had a much better contract (thank GOD i did not get hired)...I went the "safe" route and it may come back to haunt me as far as my ultimate seniority goes after integration...if I had been interested in rolling the dice for a quick upgrade at JB or AAI I would have taken that chance...I did not...it seems a little disingenuos to now fault the AAI guys who took the chance with a "start up" and now may end up ahead of me...if I really was a gambler I would have gone to JB or AAI and gotten the quick upgrade...I have been an FO a long time...I live a comfortable life, have a great schedule and work at a great place where people try to get along and management has not tried to screw us, they even value us...these are all GREAT reasons to work at SWA, they are INVALUABLE reasons...I want this company to be a great place after we integrate...like the AAI pilots I just want a "fair" outcome...should the AAI pilots be rewarded for their gamble at the expense of my seniority?? That is the concept that, as selfish person, I have a hard time accepting...should I be financially rewarded for taking the safe route (upgraded at the expense of AAI seniority), or should I accept that this merger will probably not affect my upgrade that much (even if it goes relative)?? How would I feel if I was a 7 year SWA FO or the bottom SWA FO?? I do know this that every AAI CP that comes to SWA and retains his seat will receive a huge pay raise (I made 154K last year flying 700 hours, my SWA CP made 274K last year flying 720 block hours). Of course I want to upgrade, I fly with SWA CPs 6 months senior to me who have been CPs for 4 years...I have lived with a good contract and make more money than many AAI CPs make...do the AAI deserve to be ahead of me because they upgraded before I did?...I do not know, and I want to be OK with whatever the outcome is, I still want to look forward to coming to work even if I have to fly for a 7 year AAI CP, but part of me will not feel that is fair...

A very fair and honest post. I think if I were you, I'd be thinking the same things. Thank you.

I have a question. How did the part of your post that I highlighted come to pass.