SWAPA/ATN: Why no JCBA?

[Lear70]

This is the big one for many. We have set on reserve in some of the most unbelievably unsafe areas for 2 1/2 years waiting to get SOMEWHAT closer to home. $8000 is what I have spent on hotel's since coming to SWA. To be able to drive to work is huge, as all of the Tranny commuters know. To have the fence come down around Atl, opens all the bases in our system. To get bumped out of a base, to me, is the equivalent of getting bumped out of a seat. You are right, it is all about perspective. To be bumped out of a base after the SLI is.....kind of like being bumped out of a seat, or losing an anticipated upgrade, wouldn't you say?

If you live in your base, yeah, that would be huge.

You need to take a closer look at our contract. Every AAI pilot gets a raise - EVEN IF THERE ARE DOWNGRADES. Making the trip conversion is tough, but to really understand you need to dig into our work rules.

Not *entirely* sure about that, having done the math with a buddy who is a 5th year SWA F/O, but like you said, there's got to be something more to the work rules than straight-line math, 'cause he makes a lot more than it seems he should monthly just looking at TFP. He does, however, work a lot (his wife is... well... let's just say I'd probably bid a lot of flying if I was married to her, too.)

You are gonna LUV it here brother!

Thanks, I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Ty Webb]

I think you might be surprised how an arbitration agreement would look like.

There really is no similarities with AAI/SW and DL/NW. None.

You're right. It's a even simpler deal.

If you took the time to run the numbers, with a complete AAI staple every Airtran pilot would significantly increase their career earnings all the way to age 65. Period, end of story. That shows how much of a windfall this deal is for you guys.
RF

There's no way of telling, because contracts change, pay rates change and companies go into bankruptcy over the course of a pilot's career. The one thing that remains constant is his seniority.

There's a long list of airlines that paid better than SWA 20 years ago, and are now out of business, bankrupt, and/or merged.

 

[ASADFW7]

Were they profitable Ty? Even after all the posturing AT guys and gals will be flabbergasted at the contrast in companies and in compensation. There will be no hit for you financially period.

 

[roughneck]

There's a long list of airlines that paid better than SWA 20 years ago, and are now out of business, bankrupt, and/or merged.

There also has never in the history of aviation been a company as profitable and stable as Southwest Airlines.

AirTran can't afford the payrates they agreed to. Interesting that they didn't agree to them until after the public announcement that SWA was buying you. That is why the big raises don't kick in until well after the expected close date. If the acquisition doesn't go through, I bet you $5 that you will be giving the raises back, giving concessions on what you have today and furloughing AGAIN in 12 months. Care to wager?

(Thank goodness for a Constructive Notice Date)

 

[scarlet]

If you took the time to run the numbers, with a complete AAI staple every Airtran pilot would significantly increase their career earnings all the way to age 65. Period, end of story. That shows how much of a windfall this deal is for you guys.
RF

IT is not about MONEY !! so your 8 yr cpt should be senior to a 10-12 yr cpt at AT= WHY? Yeah RIGHT

Windfall, lets talk about what you guys get. how about no growth for over the next two years currently planned, lets talk about 50-75 more 737s coming, INTL cities that you don't fly to, your reservation system that is a wreck, DCA slots, LGA slots, did I mention ATL, rafts on 737, raft trained crews, XM Radio (entertainment), WiFi on every plane, oh and Gary Kelly and SWA noted ATL may become largest city..=? Windfall again?

Sen=is about days off/vacation/holidays !

So a 6-7yr FO that is about to upgrade should be back at the bottom of your list?

Date of hire or Relative Sen.=FAIR It is not like you or us would gain thousands of numbers on any one. Yes have done the math by rel. sen. and by hire date.. and by 4 to 1....either 4-5 ways you can run the numbers=you will be around 400-500 within your number or 5 now. no gain, no loss . Frontier was BK and their pilots would not take staple.

 

[scarlet]

AirTran can't afford the payrates they agreed to.

So why not wait until AT folds and buy them then.=Oh thats right smart one, AT just keeps growing and growing and getting another 50-75 aircraft in the next 5 yrs.

AT cheaper to operate then SWA, so they will just keep chopping away at SWA, so if you are SWA;how do you stop that=BUY THEM. Economy 101 ! Think about all that you would get with an Airtran merger= MAKES alot of SENSE and more importantly more MONEY for SWA !

 

[luv2fly]

If you took the time to run the numbers, with a complete AAI staple every Airtran pilot would significantly increase their career earnings all the way to age 65. Period, end of story. That shows how much of a windfall this deal is for you guys.
RF

IT is not about MONEY !! so your 8 yr cpt should be senior to a 10-12 yr cpt at AT= WHY? Yeah RIGHT

Windfall, lets talk about what you guys get. how about no growth for over the next two years currently planned, lets talk about 50-75 more 737s coming, INTL cities that you don't fly to, your reservation system that is a wreck, DCA slots, LGA slots, did I mention ATL, rafts on 737, raft trained crews, XM Radio (entertainment), WiFi on every plane, oh and Gary Kelly and SWA noted ATL may become largest city..=? Windfall again?

Sen=is about days off/vacation/holidays !

So a 6-7yr FO that is about to upgrade should be back at the bottom of your list?

Date of hire or Relative Sen.=FAIR It is not like you or us would gain thousands of numbers on any one. Yes have done the math by rel. sen. and by hire date.. and by 4 to 1....either 4-5 ways you can run the numbers=you will be around 400-500 within your number or 5 now. no gain, no loss . Frontier was BK and their pilots would not take staple.

Put down your wine and step away from the computer....please!

I will say you are correct in this statement, "Sen=is days off/vacation/holidays!" Over here the AVERAGE is 18 days off a month. You guys could get placed at the bottom of our list and the average pilot will see a huge increase in days off. So if your stance is Seniority = Days off; then I have a perfect SLI for you!

 

[roughneck]

AT cheaper to operate then SWA, so they will just keep chopping away at SWA

AT has never gained market share over SWA in any markets in which they compete. AirTran is a competitor, but not one that SWA spends much time worrying about. We want your gates in ATL. Not much else.

 

[ivauir]

Our low pay the past decade helped to build a quality LCC which your company wanted badly enough to pay a couple billion for if you include our debt in the mix. So we have earned the pay raise and SWA will get their growth.

Max,

Interesting argument.

Our recent lack of growth has let us save the money that we are using to buy you ...

 

[Richard Gozinya]

If you live in your base, yeah, that would be huge.

Yes, it is huge. Even more when the commute to every domicile, exc Hou, is two legs. Losing a seat in a domicile that you live is the same as losing the left seat or a possible/anticipated upgrade. And I'm sure we can all agree that anything hoped for in the future in the airline industry is just that........a possibility.