SWAPA "AIP reached with Company"

[FlyinGuy]

There is two parts to the "working mule" that most of us are feeling now days. First, FAR 117 is less restrictive. Second, SWA has told scheduling to squeeze the turnip to achieve more ROIC. They could have worked us harder under the old rules, but they chose not to. The new philosophy is to put a tremendous strain on the entire operation to increase profits.

This AIP is probably DOA. If SWA wanted Section 1 relief, they should have thrown a ton of money our way (I still would have said no, but many would have taken the bait). They tried to go cheap and I believe it will backfire. We shall see.........

 

[Flycatcher99]

There is two parts to the "working mule" that most of us are feeling now days. First, FAR 117 is less restrictive. Second, SWA has told scheduling to squeeze the turnip to achieve more ROIC. They could have worked us harder under the old rules, but they chose not to. The new philosophy is to put a tremendous strain on the entire operation to increase profits.

This AIP is probably DOA. If SWA wanted Section 1 relief, they should have thrown a ton of money our way (I still would have said no, but many would have taken the bait). They tried to go cheap and I believe it will backfire. We shall see.........

I agree. I'm thinking this AIP will go nowhere, and I seriously doubt it makes it past the board. Word coming back from domicile reps is that there is a lot of dissatisfaction.

 

[outerlimits]

I agree. I'm thinking this AIP will go nowhere, and I seriously doubt it makes it past the board. Word coming back from domicile reps is that there is a lot of dissatisfaction.

Is it true you guys are giving in to codeshare .

I would say bad for you ,good for me

 

[shootr]

No, not true. While the NC may have given in, neither the BOD nor the pilot group have, yet. I'll vote no on any Section 1 give-backs, regardless of pay-rates/bonuses.

 

[Flycatcher99]

Especially after we fought so hard for section one protections during the last go around. It's a big reason TA1 failed that time. Got less pay on TA2 with a better section one.

I have to think this group (even discounting the former AT folk) is much more averse to signing off on a deal that bends on code share, even with substantial raises. Of course, by "substantial", I mean what the company would figure to be substantial, and what we would figure to be roughly COLA. IOW, a less than flattish contract, if my buying power is just catching up to life and I'm giving up code share protections.

Thus my doubt that this even goes past the BOD.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

"Even discounting the former AT folk"

....You don't seriously think that 1600 guys who were on the verge of striking just a few short years ago would accept any erosion of codeshare protections to pay for a COLA raise do you?

 

[SWA Bubba]

"Even discounting the former AT folk"

....You don't seriously think that 1600 guys who were on the verge of striking just a few short years ago would accept any erosion of codeshare protections to pay for a COLA raise do you?

I suspect he's talking about that few, still-disgruntled subset of FAT pilots who continually claim on this board that they'll, "vote yes for any subpar contract that is put before them," presumidly as a slam to, or "punishment" for, OSW pilots, whom they hold responsible for their continued pissed-off-ness. Don't worry--in reality, most of us assume that in actuality, FATs will be just as critical about the particulars of a TA as OSWs are.

Bubba

 

[XRMEFLYER]

That's a fairly safe assumption.

Hopefully they will surprise us and bring us a clean TA with none of those things that seem to have the 13 guys on the swapa forum all up in arms.

 

[Flycatcher99]

I'm sorry, I think my syntax got mangled. I meant that even if you take away 1700 guys who are definitely willing to vote no, even the remnant (the OSW folk) are much farther from collectively voting anything through.

 

[Tripower455]

Don't worry--in reality, most of us assume that in actuality, FATs will be just as critical about the particulars of a TA as OSWs are.

That's a frightening thought.

Some critical evaluation before voting YES! on more concessions would be a nice change of pace around here. I was hoping that the FAT folks would tip the scales since we're historically unable or unwilling to do it.

 

[humveedriver]

Humvee, our duty day rules are already less restricting than the FARs. They couldn't get any worse.

I was talking about why the FA contract failed. Please take time to read our TA and focus on what the company will likely do with changes they are making. Especially if you elect to fly the NG/Max/ETOPs intl'l stuff. There will be more than just LAS to DAL red eyes coming. The rented mules will be seeing considerably more night flying. Same FAR's, but days to night. Night to days.

 

[General Lee]

Sounds like too many givebacks during higher profits. That's the same case at DL. Your "FAT" pilots will vote NO because they have waited a long time for winning the "goldmine", and they don't want to give that up. The pilots that you will have to worry about are the senior pilots who think the new rules won't affect them, maybe the top 30% Captains in each base. They only see the pay raises. They already fly the trips they want (AM or PM), and redeye trips won't be in their bids.

The JV or codeshare additions, aren't good. They have taken away a lot of flying from the Big 3. Gone, forever, to cheaper overseas airlines that now fly bigger planes than we do. Same goes with domestic code shares or RJs, although dwindling newhire positions and impending pilot shortages at the Regionals, along with pilot shortages due to huge upcoming retirement numbers at the Big 3 have helped that problem.


Good luck, if you don't like the TA, vote it down and move on. Don't give away too much during great times.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[fletch717]

I'm not voting yes to punish anyone, I need the FO pay raise.

 

[Tripower455]

I'm not voting yes to punish anyone, I need the FO pay raise.

Whatever raise you think you'll get is gonna get pi$$ed away in the fine print, just like last time.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Whatever raise you think you'll get is gonna get pi$$ed away in the fine print, just like last time.

Yeah, we were all told that we were getting a raise, not so much. We were told that by SWAPA and mgmt, the irony is sickening.