SWAPA "AIP reached with Company"

[HowardBorden]

They're openly walking all over our section 1 protection right now.

Nobody has walked all over section 1, YET. Not one distressed passenger has been re-booked on JetBlue. The company agreed to cease and desist after the union approached them and told them this was a scope violation. They will be meeting to discuss it soon. My prediction is no SWA passengers will ever be re-booked on JB. Section one is very clear on this, no domestic codeshare, period. We will win this battle hands down with an arbitrator.


CODESHARING
1. General
Flying pursuant to a Codeshare and/or Marketing Agreement is only permitted so long as the requirements of this Agreement are satisfied.

Domestic Codeshare
Southwest Airlines will not enter into a domestic Codeshare Agreement within the fifty (50) United States without the agreement of the Association.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Nobody has walked all over section 1, YET. Not one distressed passenger has been re-booked on JetBlue. The company agreed to cease and desist after the union approached them and told them this was a scope violation. They will be meeting to discuss it soon. My prediction is no SWA passengers will ever be re-booked on JB. Section one is very clear on this, no domestic codeshare, period. We will win this battle hands down with an arbitrator.

Don't bother with the truth, Howard--these guys don't want to hear it. They're so interested in bitching and moaning, and declaring their unqualified opposition to the AIP--without even seeing the damn thing--that they can't be bothered with such trivial things, as what's really happening.

Bubba

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

Yes, it is different. We actually had leverage. You don't.

Leverage... is that how you get a "house" off its wheels when you deliver it to the trailer park?

 

[twepilot]

We have so little leverage that GK and company aren't even trying to hide what they're doing.

They're openly walking all over our section 1 protection right now. We can vote yes on this AIP and get a few crumbs in return while we watch our flying go away.

Or we can vote it down, replace some people, and spend another year or two reorganizing and catching up before we even have another AIP to consider. And the company will continue shredding section 1 the whole time.

GK wins either way.

Meanwhile, guys are fighting over how big a share of the signing bonus they will personally get if they pass this fiasco of a TA.

Man, I thought ATN ALPO was effd up...This takes the cake....And I just got a dark tie...WTF

RV

 

[hoover84]

Jetblue would keep all the revenue on a rebooked customer.... No revenue split unless they have a codeshare agreement.

 

[Kharma Police]

I don't know what's in it, nor do I care. Given the opportunity I'm voting NO

That sounds like Brian Fellow from SNL. Why don't you read it first before you decide?

 

[Capn Butthead]

I've been doing it for a long time now...no single engine Taxi in or out. Went back to the gate last trip. Should be no open time but there are some greedy people out there...usually the same ones whining about no contract have 160tfp

 

[SWA Bubba]

That sounds like Brian Fellow from SNL. Why don't you read it first before you decide?

He doesn't need to read it--he "knows" that any deal would be bad. He's the same guy who was insisting that Southwest was going to be "furloughing pilots imminently," for the last several years. Too bad he didn't take me up on the $1,000 bet I offered him concerning that.

Bubba

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

Which is funny because last year when I met Bubba in DAL he wouldn't even buy me a hot dog. (But he did have mustard on his tie).

 

[Just thinking]

another tragic example of disconnected group of pilots pretending to be leaders

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

My point not so well stated is that my default vote is no. Of course I'll read, listen and consider IF this becomes a TA. I am very cautious because given the Un labor friendly climate in the country right now Mr.Kelly and Mr. Babbit have no incentive to improve our lot in life unless we have something that they need, or want, or we are so out the bottom of the market that it is making staffing difficult for them. I'm suspicious of any trade because Mr. Kelly seems to value his bonus more than the culture, the employees, or the overall operation. Furthermore Mr. Kelly's disregard of Sec. 1 this week no matter how small has me concerned that any give in our current very clear language will put us into CBA Hell where the company will do whatever it wants and we'll be fighting to defend the contract for years. I have some personal faith in PJ and some of the BOD members. The resignation of the NOC folks doesn't seem to be a positive indicator. I am not willing to trade the longer term future of my career for a few dollars now. That being said I feel that everything regarding this AIP should be put on hold until the Sec 1. Violation no matter how small is resolved. I think this is a trial balloon by the company and we need to show them how seriously we take this.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Duplicate

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Yes, it is different. We actually had leverage. You don't.

I disagree. We have a very restrictive section 1. And Mr. Kelly has ordered a whole lot of aircraft not covered by our CBA. They can either come to an acceptable agreement, or I for one, am very content to let Mr. Kelly take those airplanes to the desert, part them out, sell them, or melt them down and make paperweights to hand out in the GO.

 

[PCL_128]

Nothing in your CBA prevents SWA from operating those aircraft. It just says the contract automatically re-opens for negotiations over them. The contract is already open, so that's a moot point.

Your only leverage at all is Section 1, and that ain't much, because Gary doesn't need modifications to remain very profitable. He can wait you out.

In the current environment, if you want leverage, you're going to have to create it artificially. That means getting ugly in the press, picketing, billboards, etc. But that pilot group isn't willing to do that, so you can't expect much from a TA.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

PCL. I disagree both with your assessment of our current contract and of our willingness as a group to take the next steps you discussed.

 

[PCL_128]

Well, the former isn't really open to debate. The words are on the page. As to the latter, I hope you're right. But I'm very doubtful.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

He doesn't need to read it--he "knows" that any deal would be bad. He's the same guy who was insisting that Southwest was going to be "furloughing pilots imminently," for the last several years. Too bad he didn't take me up on the $1,000 bet I offered him concerning that.

Bubba

Yep I was way off on that one. I'm really glad I was. Glad I didn't make that bet.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Well, the former isn't really open to debate. The words are on the page. As to the latter, I hope you're right. But I'm very doubtful.

The current CBA has no pay rate for those aircraft. Also it doesn't provide for the partition that the company claims the FAA is demanding. It's not so simple. SWAPA and the SMEs disagree with your interpretation.


As for the pilot unity....to say I have been shocked in a good way by what I've seen and heard would be an understatement. I really believe this pilot group today is ready willing and able to do what it takes to get a good contract. A lot of how this company runs is predicated on the goodwill of the employees. A lot has changed. If Mr. Kelly chooses to continue to run this company like a legacy it will reflect in the spread sheet, which will affect the institutional investors and his bonus. If he tries to wait us out as you suggest it won't be cost effective. He is playing a very dangerous game.

 

[PCL_128]

Like I said, words on a page mean something. Words like "re-open" have definitions in labor law, and your opinion isn't really relevant. You have no leverage there. Don't fool yourself.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Like I said, words on a page mean something. Words like "re-open" have definitions in labor law, and your opinion isn't really relevant. You have no leverage there. Don't fool yourself.

While I respect your overall knowledge of labor law, I think I'll trust the interpretation of SWAPA and the subject matter experts versus yours, a disgruntled former employee who has no love for SWA, SWAPA, or anything associated with either. I wonder if you have been asked by your ALPA buddy, Mr. Babbit, to help manage expectations. Your position here is basically the company's postion and ignores the pay rates, partitions and a handful of other issues that would be required to be addressed and you know that. Strange