SWA yes vote:

[Sy-bill]

Integrating seniority lists and merging operations are two different events. One is a piece of paper and the other is an actual process.

An arbitrator can make a decision when the integrated list (piece of paper) can be implemented but it has no weight if the acquiring airline wants to operate the two airlines separately.

And if I understand this correctly, if this goes to arbitration then the AT pilots do not have a place at the table with the still to be negotiated "Integration Agreement". If a negotiated ISL comes to pass then the AT will have a place at the table.

To me, this is very telling that the AT MEC agreed to this in the process agreement. Why would they? I can only guess that they acknowledge who has the power in this process and they are trying to manage the outcome the best with what they have. Which contrary to some on this board, ain't much.

So for those who believe that an arbitrator will decide when SWA will integrate the airlines, you are being misguided. At this time you are only negotiating a piece of paper with 7500 names in some kind of order. If this does not play out well, it will only be a piece of paper.

On one other note, pilots tend to think this whole business of integration is all about them. I have tried to get a little information on the current flight attendant and mechanics state of their negotiations. And what I have found is largely the SWA flight attendants and mechanics are none too happy themselves. So even if the pilots come to an agreement, there are another two unionized, seniority based work groups that need to come to terms also. Otherwise that could keep these two airlines separate for a good time to come, with the pilots support.

 

[PCL_128]

And the big one...Mesaba was awarded nicely for bringing a better contract to the 9E/XJ/9L SLI discusion. You see, you don't like to talk about that part of the arbitration award but it's clearly in there from the arbitor.

You don't even bother to read the award and you decide that you're an expert all the sudden? Do a little research dude, this is what makes you completely un-credible.

Before you start scolding other people for not reading the award, you may want to actually read it yourself. No, not the "discussion" section, the actual award. In other words, the seniority list itself. If you and I had stayed at Pinnacle instead of leaving for SWA and ATN, the two of us would be in the mid-teens in percentile on the new seniority list. That would have put tons of senior Mesaba pilots who had been there a hell of a lot longer than we had been at Pinnacle far junior to us on the combined list. Their better contract and longer length of service ended up meaning absolutely nothing to Arbitrator Bloch, even though he paid lip service to it in the discussion section of his ruling.

 

[redflyer65]

And what I have found is largely the SWA flight attendants and mechanics are none too happy themselves. So even if the pilots come to an agreement, there are another two unionized, seniority based work groups that need to come to terms also. Otherwise that could keep these two airlines separate for a good time to come, with the pilots support.

I've heard the same as well. Be interesting to see what Gary's breaking point is going to be moving forward.

 

[Daddy]

Sy-bill got it right....any ISL is meaningless without operationally merging which will not happen without some real peace and harmony among the SWA ranks. I think most of the trannies on this forum have gross misconceptions on this point as well as the "luv" culture. Impossible to explain to some here...but given the fact that closing has already occurred, you are playing with fire when you mess with Gary.

 

[redflyer65]

Impossible to explain to some here....

Exactly.

 

[shootr]

SWA flight attendants and mechanics are none too happy themselves. So even if the pilots come to an agreement, there are another two unionized, seniority based work groups that need to come to terms also. Otherwise that could keep these two airlines separate for a good time to come, with the pilots support.

The mechs...that's group you guys need to be worrying about. AT has almost as many mechs as SWA with 1/3 the A/C. No matter how nice we are to each other and mature we are about the final SLI, the whole thing could evaporate, anyway. Watch the mechs.

 

[Ty Webb]

An arbitrator can make a decision when the integrated list (piece of paper) can be implemented but it has no weight if the acquiring airline wants to operate the two airlines separately.

Except, in this case, ALL parties negotiated and agreed to the stipulation that the Arbitrator will set the implementation date. That was agreed to in good faith by all parties. Until I see evidence to the contrary, I believe the parties will honor what they have agreed to.

And if I understand this correctly, if this goes to arbitration then the AT pilots do not have a place at the table with the still to be negotiated "Integration Agreement". If a negotiated ISL comes to pass then the AT will have a place at the table.

. True, and an important piece.

To me, this is very telling that the AT MEC agreed to this in the process agreement. Why would they? I can only guess that they acknowledge who has the power in this process and they are trying to manage the outcome the best with what they have.

They are negotiating in good faith. Negotiations require give and take. We want to have a negotiated settlement, you can't just deadlock everything and expect to get there . . . . . which is something you guys will have to accept as well.

So for those who believe that an arbitrator will decide when SWA will integrate the airlines, you are being misguided. At this time you are only negotiating a piece of paper with 7500 names in some kind of order. If this does not play out well, it will only be a piece of paper.

If it's just a piece of paper, then you guys won't mind rolling over on everything, right? 'Cause it's just a piece of paper. :laugh:

On one other note, pilots tend to think this whole business of integration is all about them. .

Yep, and we need to be mindful of the fact that what we do, and how we behave will be watched closely by all work groups.

Regards,
TW

PS., Aren't you tired of using the avatar you stole from me 4 years ago? Get your own.

 

[Sy-bill]

Except, in this case, ALL parties negotiated and agreed to the stipulation that the Arbitrator will set the implementation date. That was agreed to in good faith by all parties. Until I see evidence to the contrary, I believe the parties will honor what they have agreed to.

Ty, you are mistaken. The implementation date means nothing if SWA decides to not integrate the companies. You are thinking that an arbitrator can force consolidation and they can not. An arbitrator can say that the integrated list will be implemented immediately but as long as there are separate operations it means nothing. It is only a piece of paper. Nothing more. For your sake you need to clear this up because it leads you to believe that the arbitrator can dictate when the airlines merge and that is not and has not ever been true. Your end of the process agreement weakens your position in arbitration. I have been saying this from the beginning.

If it's just a piece of paper, then you guys won't mind rolling over on everything, right? 'Cause it's just a piece of paper

I am not part of "you guys". Believe what you will. Like your belief in that an arbitrator will dictate to SWA the timeline on the integration of the two airlines.

PS., Aren't you tired of using the avatar you stole from me 4 years ago? Get your own.

You can never admit that you "stole" this from someone else. I did this to get under your hide because of how you were acting back then. It looks like you are trying to be more civilized but too late. Your true character is well known.

 

[RLAblows]

Sy-bill got it right....any ISL is meaningless without operationally merging which will not happen without some real peace and harmony among the SWA ranks. I think most of the trannies on this forum have gross misconceptions on this point as well as the "luv" culture. Impossible to explain to some here...but given the fact that closing has already occurred, you are playing with fire when you mess with Gary.

I think most of the "trannies" on this board are pretty positive, but you guys chose to ignore or recognize those posts. I guess acknowledging the positives would spoil all of the fun.

 

[PCL_128]

Ty, you are mistaken. The implementation date means nothing if SWA decides to not integrate the companies.

SWA has already agreed in the Process Agreement that they WILL merge the operations. Read it again.