SWA yes vote:

[shootr]

SWA flight attendants and mechanics are none too happy themselves. So even if the pilots come to an agreement, there are another two unionized, seniority based work groups that need to come to terms also. Otherwise that could keep these two airlines separate for a good time to come, with the pilots support.

The mechs...that's group you guys need to be worrying about. AT has almost as many mechs as SWA with 1/3 the A/C. No matter how nice we are to each other and mature we are about the final SLI, the whole thing could evaporate, anyway. Watch the mechs.

 

[Ty Webb]

An arbitrator can make a decision when the integrated list (piece of paper) can be implemented but it has no weight if the acquiring airline wants to operate the two airlines separately.

Except, in this case, ALL parties negotiated and agreed to the stipulation that the Arbitrator will set the implementation date. That was agreed to in good faith by all parties. Until I see evidence to the contrary, I believe the parties will honor what they have agreed to.

And if I understand this correctly, if this goes to arbitration then the AT pilots do not have a place at the table with the still to be negotiated "Integration Agreement". If a negotiated ISL comes to pass then the AT will have a place at the table.

. True, and an important piece.

To me, this is very telling that the AT MEC agreed to this in the process agreement. Why would they? I can only guess that they acknowledge who has the power in this process and they are trying to manage the outcome the best with what they have.

They are negotiating in good faith. Negotiations require give and take. We want to have a negotiated settlement, you can't just deadlock everything and expect to get there . . . . . which is something you guys will have to accept as well.

So for those who believe that an arbitrator will decide when SWA will integrate the airlines, you are being misguided. At this time you are only negotiating a piece of paper with 7500 names in some kind of order. If this does not play out well, it will only be a piece of paper.

If it's just a piece of paper, then you guys won't mind rolling over on everything, right? 'Cause it's just a piece of paper. :laugh:

On one other note, pilots tend to think this whole business of integration is all about them. .

Yep, and we need to be mindful of the fact that what we do, and how we behave will be watched closely by all work groups.

Regards,
TW

PS., Aren't you tired of using the avatar you stole from me 4 years ago? Get your own.

 

[Sy-bill]

Except, in this case, ALL parties negotiated and agreed to the stipulation that the Arbitrator will set the implementation date. That was agreed to in good faith by all parties. Until I see evidence to the contrary, I believe the parties will honor what they have agreed to.

Ty, you are mistaken. The implementation date means nothing if SWA decides to not integrate the companies. You are thinking that an arbitrator can force consolidation and they can not. An arbitrator can say that the integrated list will be implemented immediately but as long as there are separate operations it means nothing. It is only a piece of paper. Nothing more. For your sake you need to clear this up because it leads you to believe that the arbitrator can dictate when the airlines merge and that is not and has not ever been true. Your end of the process agreement weakens your position in arbitration. I have been saying this from the beginning.

If it's just a piece of paper, then you guys won't mind rolling over on everything, right? 'Cause it's just a piece of paper

I am not part of "you guys". Believe what you will. Like your belief in that an arbitrator will dictate to SWA the timeline on the integration of the two airlines.

PS., Aren't you tired of using the avatar you stole from me 4 years ago? Get your own.

You can never admit that you "stole" this from someone else. I did this to get under your hide because of how you were acting back then. It looks like you are trying to be more civilized but too late. Your true character is well known.

 

[RLAblows]

Sy-bill got it right....any ISL is meaningless without operationally merging which will not happen without some real peace and harmony among the SWA ranks. I think most of the trannies on this forum have gross misconceptions on this point as well as the "luv" culture. Impossible to explain to some here...but given the fact that closing has already occurred, you are playing with fire when you mess with Gary.

I think most of the "trannies" on this board are pretty positive, but you guys chose to ignore or recognize those posts. I guess acknowledging the positives would spoil all of the fun.

 

[PCL_128]

Ty, you are mistaken. The implementation date means nothing if SWA decides to not integrate the companies.

SWA has already agreed in the Process Agreement that they WILL merge the operations. Read it again.

 

[Ty Webb]

You can never admit that you "stole" this from someone else. I did this to get under your hide because of how you were acting back then. It looks like you are trying to be more civilized but too late. Your true character is well known.

If I "stole it", it was from a dead painter, named Salvador Dali.

You copied it from me because you were frustrated by your inability to frame a logical response. I guess some things never change. :laugh:

 

[Flycatcher99]

SWA has already agreed in the Process Agreement that they WILL merge the operations. Read it again.

Absolutely incorrect. Both you and Ty need to reread it yourselves. The agreement begins with the introduction that the agreement entails the process whereby the two carriers will be merged into one carrier should that happen. Nowhere does it stipulate that the two carriers will be merged. Do you understand the difference?

Please quote the portion of the process agreement that stipulates that integration take place.

 

[PCL_128]

Please quote the portion of the process agreement that stipulates that integration take place.

Section VI.a. It's not ambiguous. Sorry.

 

[Flycatcher99]

"WHEREAS,​

​

​

the McCaskill-Bond Act provides that in the event of a transaction between air carriers in which one air carrier acquires fifty (50) percent or more of the stock of another air carrier in a transaction for the combination of multiple air carriers into a single air carrier, the seniority lists of the employees of the air carriers shall be integrated pursuant to the provisions set out in Sections 3 and 13 of the CAB’s decision in​

Allegheny-Mohawk, 59 CAB 22 (1972);"



If SWA does not complet a "combination of multiple air carriers into a single air carrier", then the above paragraph, and, thus, the process agreement, is neither here nor there. All the process agreement does is provide the "process" that has been "agreed" upon by all carriers to complete the SLI if the two carriers become one.

Thus endeth the reading comprehension lesson.

 

[vetrider]

SWA has already agreed in the Process Agreement that they WILL merge the operations. Read it again.

That still doesn't mean squat. The SWA guys won't even need Prater to help try to tie Air Tran pilots' hands behind their back. If the SWA guys feel the need, they can and I bet they will make the Airways east pilots look like complete rookies.

 

[RLAblows]

I'll vote yes if you can get me a Hope Solo poster.

 

[greenpilot]

If you believe that the merger of aai and swa depends on the SLI of the different employee groups why is swa currently spending millions of dollars integrating the two airlines?
As far a the other groups of employees it doesn't seem to hurt delta having to seperate FA groups.

 

[luv2fly]

Section VI.a. It's not ambiguous. Sorry.

Man, you are wrong again. That section only applies if Complete Operational Merger occurs.

I guess you didn't keep reading the document.

Section VII. Termination of Agreement
(a)...
(b) Any Party may terminate this agreement by fifteen (15) days written notice delivered to all other Parties at any time following termination of the Merger Agreement....

Meaning no Process Agreement without Complete Operational Merger!

 

[RLAblows]

That still doesn't mean squat. The SWA guys won't even need Prater to help try to tie Air Tran pilots' hands behind their back. If the SWA guys feel the need, they can and I bet they will make the Airways east pilots look like complete rookies.

Who's Prater?

 

[PCL_128]

Man, you are wrong again. That section only applies if Complete Operational Merger occurs.

I guess you didn't keep reading the document.

Section VII. Termination of Agreement
(a)...
(b) Any Party may terminate this agreement by fifteen (15) days written notice delivered to all other Parties at any time following termination of the Merger Agreement....

Meaning no Process Agreement without Complete Operational Merger!

You should really talk to a lawyer. You could use some help in interpreting these things.