SWA yes vote:

[Ty Webb]

You can never admit that you "stole" this from someone else. I did this to get under your hide because of how you were acting back then. It looks like you are trying to be more civilized but too late. Your true character is well known.

If I "stole it", it was from a dead painter, named Salvador Dali.

You copied it from me because you were frustrated by your inability to frame a logical response. I guess some things never change. :laugh:

 

[Flycatcher99]

SWA has already agreed in the Process Agreement that they WILL merge the operations. Read it again.

Absolutely incorrect. Both you and Ty need to reread it yourselves. The agreement begins with the introduction that the agreement entails the process whereby the two carriers will be merged into one carrier should that happen. Nowhere does it stipulate that the two carriers will be merged. Do you understand the difference?

Please quote the portion of the process agreement that stipulates that integration take place.

 

[PCL_128]

Please quote the portion of the process agreement that stipulates that integration take place.

Section VI.a. It's not ambiguous. Sorry.

 

[Flycatcher99]

"WHEREAS,​

​

​

the McCaskill-Bond Act provides that in the event of a transaction between air carriers in which one air carrier acquires fifty (50) percent or more of the stock of another air carrier in a transaction for the combination of multiple air carriers into a single air carrier, the seniority lists of the employees of the air carriers shall be integrated pursuant to the provisions set out in Sections 3 and 13 of the CAB’s decision in​

Allegheny-Mohawk, 59 CAB 22 (1972);"



If SWA does not complet a "combination of multiple air carriers into a single air carrier", then the above paragraph, and, thus, the process agreement, is neither here nor there. All the process agreement does is provide the "process" that has been "agreed" upon by all carriers to complete the SLI if the two carriers become one.

Thus endeth the reading comprehension lesson.

 

[vetrider]

SWA has already agreed in the Process Agreement that they WILL merge the operations. Read it again.

That still doesn't mean squat. The SWA guys won't even need Prater to help try to tie Air Tran pilots' hands behind their back. If the SWA guys feel the need, they can and I bet they will make the Airways east pilots look like complete rookies.

 

[RLAblows]

I'll vote yes if you can get me a Hope Solo poster.

 

[greenpilot]

If you believe that the merger of aai and swa depends on the SLI of the different employee groups why is swa currently spending millions of dollars integrating the two airlines?
As far a the other groups of employees it doesn't seem to hurt delta having to seperate FA groups.

 

[luv2fly]

Section VI.a. It's not ambiguous. Sorry.

Man, you are wrong again. That section only applies if Complete Operational Merger occurs.

I guess you didn't keep reading the document.

Section VII. Termination of Agreement
(a)...
(b) Any Party may terminate this agreement by fifteen (15) days written notice delivered to all other Parties at any time following termination of the Merger Agreement....

Meaning no Process Agreement without Complete Operational Merger!

 

[RLAblows]

That still doesn't mean squat. The SWA guys won't even need Prater to help try to tie Air Tran pilots' hands behind their back. If the SWA guys feel the need, they can and I bet they will make the Airways east pilots look like complete rookies.

Who's Prater?

 

[PCL_128]

Man, you are wrong again. That section only applies if Complete Operational Merger occurs.

I guess you didn't keep reading the document.

Section VII. Termination of Agreement
(a)...
(b) Any Party may terminate this agreement by fifteen (15) days written notice delivered to all other Parties at any time following termination of the Merger Agreement....

Meaning no Process Agreement without Complete Operational Merger!

You should really talk to a lawyer. You could use some help in interpreting these things.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Man, you are wrong again. That section only applies if Complete Operational Merger occurs.

I guess you didn't keep reading the document.

Section VII. Termination of Agreement
(a)...
(b) Any Party may terminate this agreement by fifteen (15) days written notice delivered to all other Parties at any time following termination of the Merger Agreement....

Meaning no Process Agreement without Complete Operational Merger!

Can the merger agreement be terminated now?

 

[PCL_128]

Can the merger agreement be terminated now?

Nope. That paragraph allows for the termination of the PA in the event that the whole thing was called off prior to date of corporate closing. With DOCC behind us, the PA is in effect, and it requires mutual agreement to terminate it.

 

[Sy-bill]

If I "stole it", it was from a dead painter, named Salvador Dali.

You copied it from me because you were frustrated by your inability to frame a logical response. I guess some things never change. :laugh:

Is it logical that you stole this from Salvador Dali?

You have been, and will always be, a piece of work.

 

[luv2fly]

Nope. That paragraph allows for the termination of the PA in the event that the whole thing was called off prior to date of corporate closing. With DOCC behind us, the PA is in effect, and it requires mutual agreement to terminate it.

Good Luck!

 

[vetrider]

Who's Prater?

Right now just some irrelevant line pilot. He used to be a biased and inept alpo president, who happened to try his darndest to get the west pilots to capitulate to the east pilots demands, post arbitration award, in the Airways - AWA merger.

Basically what I'm seeing in the SWA - Air Tran deal is that the SWA guys are basically telegraphing that they are the alphas here, and that by hook or crook whatever comes down the pike will be acceptable to them or else. And they have the horsepower to make a real mess of it for the Air Tran guys if they so choose.

 

[redflyer65]

There's more than a few ways this whole thing could play out. More than a few options for Gary if he elects to use them...and nothing in the Process Agreement would stop him at all.

I think Gary might lay it all out for the AAI guys this week.

RF

 

[kwick]

GK doesn't want to go down as
"The Guy That Destroyed What
Herb Built"

Gonna be twice as long to upgrade
to Captain at SW as Airtran.

Seems like less career expectation
Rather than more!

 

[Flycatcher99]

Section VI.a. It's not ambiguous. Sorry.

Okay, PCL, either you didn't read my second post, or you didn't have an answer for it. Either way, I'm posting it again, and this time, in reference to Section VI (and every other section). You have to read ALL the legalese, not just the parts that you like.

Read the first two pages of the Process Agreement. They outline the provisions and circumstances under which the Process Agreement is made. The sections that follow outline the agreement, if the process is to be followed.

The very first paragraph says:


"THIS SENIORITY INTEGRATION PROCESS AGREEMENT

(“Agreement”) is made and entered into in accordance with the provisions of the McCaskill-Bond Act [emphasis mine], 49 USCA § 42112, Pub.L. 110-161, Div. K, Title I, § 117, Dec. 26, 2007, 121 Stat. 2383, and in accordance with the provisions of the Southwest Airlines and AirTran Airways pilots’ respective collective bargaining agreements, by and between SOUTHWEST AIRLINES CO., AIRTRAN AIRWAYS, INC., the AIRLINE PILOTS in the service of SOUTHWEST AIRLINES CO., as represented by the SOUTHWEST AIRLINES PILOTS’ ASSOCIATION, and the AIRLINE PILOTS in the service of AIRTRAN AIRWAYS, INC. as represented by the AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION."​

Three paragraphs later is an explanation of the McCaskill-Bond Act, and thus, a clarification of the circumstances under which the Process Agreement is valid:​

"WHEREAS,

the McCaskill-Bond Act provides that in the event of a transaction between air carriers in which one air carrier acquires fifty (50) percent or more of the stock of another air carrier in a transaction for the combination of multiple air carriers into a single air carrier, the seniority lists of the employees of the air carriers shall be integrated pursuant to the provisions set out in Sections 3 and 13 of the CAB’s decision in Allegheny-Mohawk, 59 CAB 22 (1972);"​

So here's what we've got here. The first paragraph states that the agreement is entered into under the "provisions of the M/B Act". The second quote above clearly states that M/B applies when (and only when) the acquiring company takes more than 50% of the stock, AND the two airlines form one airline.​

I'm no labor lawyer (my brother is, though), but I can tell you that this Process Agreement in no way requires the merger of the lists. The sections that follow these introductory paragraphs, including your Section VI, only serve to expound on the details that will be followed by the process spelled out in the agreement. There is simply no stipulation that SWA merges the two airlines. Period.​

​

Oh, and Section VII does provide an out, even if SWA does merge the operations, no matter what you or Ty think.​

 

[Flycatcher99]

Nope. That paragraph allows for the termination of the PA in the event that the whole thing was called off prior to date of corporate closing. With DOCC behind us, the PA is in effect, and it requires mutual agreement to terminate it.

Please, quote me the legal reference for this line of thinking. It certainly is not in the Process Agreement.

 

[Max Powers]

Okay, PCL, either you didn't read my second post, or you didn't have an answer for it. Either way, I'm posting it again, and this time, in reference to Section VI (and every other section). You have to read ALL the legalese, not just the parts that you like.

Read the first two pages of the Process Agreement. They outline the provisions and circumstances under which the Process Agreement is made. The sections that follow outline the agreement, if the process is to be followed.

The very first paragraph says:

I'm no labor lawyer (my brother is, though), but I can tell you that this Process Agreement in no way requires the merger of the lists. The sections that follow these introductory paragraphs, including your Section VI, only serve to expound on the details that will be followed by the process spelled out in the agreement. There is simply no stipulation that SWA merges the two airlines. Period.​

Oh, and Section VII does provide an out, even if SWA does merge the operations, no matter what you or Ty think.​

Lest you forget our CBA which requires merging of the lists 18 months post DOCC. AAI reafirmed in writing to honor this agreement with the sale of the company. Can GK disobey it....sure.....question is why the He!! would he unless he want to lose 100s of millions in down time retraining 1800 new pilots and putting up with a tarnished reputation.

After arbitration if the company refuses to integrate us I stop coming to work along with 1800 guys - can your warrior spirit handle that?....Probably... but your shareholders will have GK and LW butt in a sling and fired.....Me thinks GK and LW like their jobs and want to keep them regardless of what some pilots want.