SWA yes vote:

[Flycatcher99]

It really doesn't take any sort of fancy legal talk on this one. It's just plain English language. If you can't understand it, then I can't help you.

This is what it says.

Section VII: Termination of Agreement
(a) The Parties may terminate this Agreement whenever they shall all mutually agree todo so.
(b) Any Party may terminate this Agreement by fifteen (15) days written notice delivered to all other Parties at any time following termination of the Merger Agreement. Termination of this Agreement shall not affect a Party’s confidentiality obligations under this Agreement.​

I understand it perfectly. All that is required is 15 days notice. You say that this part is not valid anymore. I've asked several times for a reference or a quotation or something that indicates this section is not valid at this point in time. The fact that you respond with thinly veiled insults rather than an informed and intelligent answer leads me to believe that you don't know what you're talking about.​

I'm genuinely interested if what you're saying is true, and if so, I'd like a reference. Thanks in advance.

 

[waveflyer]

You guys have to stop the fighting....I think the SW pilots will find that in the end us Airtran guys are/were never trying to hurt a SW pilot. Our MC will address most if not all of SWAPA's concerns. There are infinite ways to protect the SW pilot group and at the same time provide us AAI pilots with a fair SLI. I trust my MC and know they are a great group of guys that want the best for BOTH groups. Take a shot and relax!

1st- just please notice that AT pilots are going to profit enormously. And the argument now is about simply 'protecting' swa pilots. Why do the acquired pilots get immense profits and we get protected. These are not equal companies or equal jobs. Swa takes years longer to achieve. Colleen brags to us about how difficult it is to get hired by SWA. And you all don't think that equates to seniority?
Aside from being all you have to offer, and with fences will barely make a dent of an improvement in most swa pilots lives- there are
rational, logical reasons to favor swa pilots in the ISL.
Not a staple. But heavily slanted toward swa and a tough sell that you aren't still coming out WAY ahead.

Now in my own head- those are facts and very even keeled. The fighting begins when AT pilots, who were in strike preps, get offended at that. I'm not fighting... Yet.

But check your man PCLs signature. You do understand that "stay classy" is a line from Anchorman and means "Go f¥ck yourself"?.... You knew that, right?

And he's not telling me to ******************** myself. Or SWA/FO, or Bobby Dylan- or any other swa pilot. He's telling SWAPA TO GO ******************** THEMSELF.

We all know who he is and what he's been about his whole career: PFT, shortcuts, entitlement, and ALPA. We also know that he was instrumental in bringing ALPA on to the property at AT and IS one of the leaders of your pilot group. You got the ATN leader telling your future union to go ******************** themselves and then argue for civility?

I was, and am, very positive about this acquisition- and check my posts- I was very moderate in the beginning. But I'm coming to realize that the moderation was due to positive assumptions about AT pilots- as the loudmouths gain traction, forget about the staple camp- I get closer to the shut Em down and hire off the street camp- for swa's sake. That would make GK a hero on par with Herb and would certainly be better for the close to 200 friends of mine who are dying for a chance to interview to be at the bottom. And there's zero question which would be better for the culture.
If you guys want a fight, you'll get one. Or maybe you'll just be locked outside with your boxers on, ready to fight, but ignored.
Never before has 'pick your battles wisely' been more applicable. But as was said before: It's not our job to look out for you. I'll lobby for the few friends I have there, but hire off the street to replace you is much better for the vast majority of pilots I care about- is better for me, and is better, IMO, for SWA.
So go ahead- get mad- knock yourself out. (Literally)

If average line guys arent getting swayed by hard liners, like you say, it might be good advice to stand up against the loudmouths voicing so stupidly.

 

[funnyman12]

Ya know Wave, I try to post only non emotional comments that respect SW pilots and you shoot me down as if I insulted you. It makes me want be an azzhole on this anonymous web board. Sorry.....well ill give you guys a little fire if ya want. If this goes to arbitration and we are awarded something similar to DOH (which we would likely at least achieve) you think GK would not integrate us? I can hear it now, "we are going to forfeit hundreds of millions of dollars because the younger smaller Airtran pilots got their hire date for seniority". He may pull a poison pill with straight relative, but unlikely with DOH. Ill take my chances if SWAPA expects a staple. Hey there ya go, a post that will envoke some emotion. Hey why not, my nice posts pies you guys off.

 

[funnyman12]

One last thing....I have enough respects for you guys to acknowledge that if I were you, I would feel the same as you. I wish you guys would also acknowledge that if you were us, you'd feel similar to how we feel. Its human and natural to feel how both sides feel. So don't take this sh*t so personal...
end of rant. These were my monthly FI posts so im not going back and forth with anyone. Hope everyone has a great summer and I really do look forward to working with all of you.

 

[madjack]

Thank you funny man, most SWA pilots respect the AAI pilots also (not Delta). Like you, most of us just want Fair and Equitable.

 

[redflyer65]

Wave,

There's nothing wrong with realizing in public why PCL was removed. I think our Airtran brothers knew exactly what they were doing, and more importantly...were wise for doing it.

 

[Lear70]

This is what it says.

Section VII: Termination of Agreement
(a) The Parties may terminate this Agreement whenever they shall all mutually agree todo so.
(b) Any Party may terminate this Agreement by fifteen (15) days written notice delivered to all other Parties at any time following termination of the Merger Agreement. Termination of this Agreement shall not affect a Party’s confidentiality obligations under this Agreement.​

I understand it perfectly. All that is required is 15 days notice. You say that this part is not valid anymore. I've asked several times for a reference or a quotation or something that indicates this section is not valid at this point in time. The fact that you respond with thinly veiled insults rather than an informed and intelligent answer leads me to believe that you don't know what you're talking about.​

I'm genuinely interested if what you're saying is true, and if so, I'd like a reference. Thanks in advance.

I'm sorry you're late to the party, we hashed all this out a couple months ago.

Section VII.b only allows for termination of the Process Agreement IF THE MERGER AGREEMENT IS NOT SIGNED.

The Merger Agreement is the agreement for Southwest to acquire AirTran Airways (you can read it on your company's corporate affairs webpage or any Yahoo link to the 10Q summary that was filed after Southwest and AirTran signed the Merger Agreement back on 9/27).

That Merger Agreement was not terminated, it was signed on May 2nd, 2011. That means that paragraph VII.b became null and void. You can't just take a PORTION of a sentence in an agreement and apply it however you want, you have to take the WHOLE SENTENCE and be able to meet ALL THE PARTS of that sentence to make a legal argument with it. Torts and Contracts 101.

Yes, this has already been vetted by our attorneys AND SWAPA's. Yes, I have that information first-hand. Yes, we've been through this on here, do a search. You should talk to your reps and/or Negotiating Committee; they can verify that information. There ARE other, "nuclear options" for Southwest; this isn't one of them. The only way the Process Agreement can be canceled now is by VII.a, where ALL 4 parties have to agree. I doubt that will happen.

 

[Just thinking]

"Colleen brags to us about how difficult it is to get hired by SWA. And you all don't think that equates to seniority?"..............

This is the true crux of the matter and it permeates throughout many of the posts. It also reminds me of fine outstanding pilots with letters of recommendation from pilots in the top 5% of SWA that had all the quals and the personality and did not get hired. Everyone knows someone that is an outstanding individual and a great pilot that interviewed and did not get hired. We also all know some real pieces of work that have made it through that most arduous process and are flying the line for SWA. What else is management going to say to the selected?

United had the "space shuttle commander" interview. ACA used to be a very demanding interview. Does an interview process define your self worth years away from the process?

Reminds me of the "ring knockers" that receive their commission and feel they are something that is just "that much better" than the rest of the group. They have been told for the last four years of their college education that they are special and are better than the rest. Ultimately the results are determined by the product that is produced after much more training and years on the job. Some do well and other not so.

I know pilots at SWA that had nothing more than some Kingair time when they got hired. I am happy for them and know that they are great people. I also know that they were also asking for letters of recommendation at Air Tran. Does that make them less of a quality individual or candidate for either airline?

Both airlines have great people and great pilots. We both also have our 10%.
Air Tran has professional pilots with a great desire to work hard and be successful. We go the extra mile day in and day out to ensure that our crewmembers and customers are taken care of. I am proud of what this pilot group has accomplished in a most demanding work environment that is hostile at times. There are many moving parts that have made Air Tran a company that was WORTH buying and this pilot group has been a critical part of that success.

I trust that today will provide some keen insight for our merger committees and enable them to work together to ensure a process that upsets the least amount of pilots in BOTH camps.

 

[jball2]

Ring knockers, awesome! We've got plenty of those too.

 

[Dash Power]

From the "Wings of Welcome" packet sent to the Airtran pilots:

WILL THERE BE AN ELECTION TO
DETERMINE WHICH UNION (ALPA
OR SWAPA) WILL REPRESENT THE
PLANNED COMBINED COMPANY?
An election is unlikely. Since SWAPA
will represent more than 65 percent of
the total combined membership, the
National Mediation Board (NMB) will
likely determine that that SWAPA will
represent all pilots if the seniority lists
are combined. Welcome!

Seems to me the company also believes there are options.

Bring on the spin!

 

[GoodTimes]

Funnyman,

Straight DOH is less that fair and equitable to the SWA side. The numbers don't lie. Your group is younger and ours has more retirements. Your relative increases with time and ours decreases. Harm occurs to the SWA group over time. A fair and equitable list needs to address that issue.....and it is not DOH.

 

[redflyer65]

Funnyman,

Straight DOH is less that fair and equitable to the SWA side. The numbers don't lie. Your group is younger and ours has more retirements. Your relative increases with time and ours decreases. Harm occurs to the SWA group over time. A fair and equitable list needs to address that issue.....and it is not DOH.

I believe they are trying hard to address those issues, from both sides of the table...which is a good thing.

RF

 

[Ty Webb]

I believe they are trying hard to address those issues, from both sides of the table...which is a good thing.

RF

Agree 100%. :beer:

 

[madjack]

Just thinking said: I trust that today will provide some keen insight for our merger committees and enable them to work together to ensure a process that upsets the least amount of pilots in BOTH camps.

Fair and equitable applies to the SWA pilots also...all the gains cannot go to the AAI pilots.

 

[ASADFW7]

All it takes is to sell out 51 percent of any list to get voted in. I hope it isn't true, maybe not maybe so.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

From the "Wings of Welcome" packet sent to the Airtran pilots:

Quote:
WILL THERE BE AN ELECTION TO
DETERMINE WHICH UNION (ALPA
OR SWAPA) WILL REPRESENT THE
PLANNED COMBINED COMPANY?
An election is unlikely. Since SWAPA
will represent more than 65 percent of
the total combined membership, the
National Mediation Board (NMB) will
likely determine that that SWAPA will
represent all pilots if the seniority lists
are combined. Welcome!





Seems to me the company also believes there are options.

Bring on the spin!

No spin, check with SWAPA, I believe they answered those questions.

 

[carl p]

1st- just please notice that AT pilots are going to profit enormously. And the argument now is about simply 'protecting' swa pilots. Why do the acquired pilots get immense profits and we get protected. These are not equal companies or equal jobs. Swa takes years longer to achieve. Colleen brags to us about how difficult it is to get hired by SWA. And you all don't think that equates to seniority?
Aside from being all you have to offer, and with fences will barely make a dent of an improvement in most swa pilots lives- there are
rational, logical reasons to favor swa pilots in the ISL.
Not a staple. But heavily slanted toward swa and a tough sell that you aren't still coming out WAY ahead.

Now in my own head- those are facts and very even keeled. The fighting begins when AT pilots, who were in strike preps, get offended at that. I'm not fighting... Yet.

But check your man PCLs signature. You do understand that "stay classy" is a line from Anchorman and means "Go f¥ck yourself"?.... You knew that, right?

And he's not telling me to ******************** myself. Or SWA/FO, or Bobby Dylan- or any other swa pilot. He's telling SWAPA TO GO ******************** THEMSELF.

We all know who he is and what he's been about his whole career: PFT, shortcuts, entitlement, and ALPA. We also know that he was instrumental in bringing ALPA on to the property at AT and IS one of the leaders of your pilot group. You got the ATN leader telling your future union to go ******************** themselves and then argue for civility?

I was, and am, very positive about this acquisition- and check my posts- I was very moderate in the beginning. But I'm coming to realize that the moderation was due to positive assumptions about AT pilots- as the loudmouths gain traction, forget about the staple camp- I get closer to the shut Em down and hire off the street camp- for swa's sake. That would make GK a hero on par with Herb and would certainly be better for the close to 200 friends of mine who are dying for a chance to interview to be at the bottom. And there's zero question which would be better for the culture.
If you guys want a fight, you'll get one. Or maybe you'll just be locked outside with your boxers on, ready to fight, but ignored.
Never before has 'pick your battles wisely' been more applicable. But as was said before: It's not our job to look out for you. I'll lobby for the few friends I have there, but hire off the street to replace you is much better for the vast majority of pilots I care about- is better for me, and is better, IMO, for SWA.
So go ahead- get mad- knock yourself out. (Literally)

If average line guys arent getting swayed by hard liners, like you say, it might be good advice to stand up against the loudmouths voicing so stupidly.

Wave,
I've always enjoyed reading your posts from the beginning of this process, but the last couple months I could sense your shift to a more aggressive less moderate tone. Frankly, that is disappointing because after this shakes out it's the moderates that will help the company prosper. I understand your frustrations, and I'm sure we would feel the same if the situation was reversed. I've said many times that the vast majority of AT pilots want to get this done and look forward to working with you guys. AT pilots performed exceptionally well with adversarial management, why would we not do even better working for a great company like SWA? Your letting a message board and probably flight deck rumors change the way you feel about 1700 pilots. You read less than 1% of our pilot group on these boards. I'm an AT pilot telling you what the mood is over here, I guarantee that's more accurate than FI. I've felt insulted by things some SWA posters have typed but I won't let it change my attitude towards the rest of your fine group. Ask your NC about our MC, and I'm confident they will tell you that our reps are reasonable and very professional as well.

As far as the shut em down crowd (not saying that's you), it's hard to believe that any pilot would wish that on another pilot. I've been furloughed 3 times, and I would never wish that on anyone. I know what it put my family through each time. It's just bad karma to wish ill on others, no thanks.

Also, AT as a company has been "interviewing" for the last 8 years or so to become part of SWA... You guys took the easy route!!!

 

[SWA/FO]

:beer: Carl P this ones for you!

 

[Lear70]

From the "Wings of Welcome" packet sent to the Airtran pilots:



Seems to me the company also believes there are options.

Bring on the spin!

The "Company" didn't say that. SWAPA did. The only thing from the company is the intro letter. The entire rest of the packet was written by SWAPA. Including that sentence.

 

[Bake]

Oh boy, Lear, ya got alot to learn about SWA.