swa type

[DH2WN]

They DEFINE PIC as one thing, but allow PIC logging with different circumstances.

That is how I interpreted their directions.

Good Luck...

 

[toa2mdt]

frac capt, when are you going down?

btw thanks guys for all your insight. like many said, its how ever you want to look at it. swa's definitions are very clear but interviewers contradict. at options, i dont think we really sign for anything. it states in the company papers that i am sic and he is pic. but we dont a thing. we are equally responsible and equal decision mkers. if one doesnt like it, we dont do it. like they say no I in team. the only reason he is pic, the way i see it, is because he was hired before me.

thanks

 

[Vspeeds]

PIC & Competitive times required?

Curious as to what are the "competitive times" required to get hired on with SWA?
a) PIC Turbine Time?
b) Total Flt. Time?


Appreciate the info!

 

[Waitin' On LUV]

Not sure what "competitive" times are, but I'm also a poolie and am more than happy to give you my stats:


Total Time: 6,700
Turbine: 6,400
T. Jet: 3,100
T. Prop: 3,300
PIC Turbine: 4,400

 

[timetoquit]

I first applied in 2000 and was invited to interview without a type in 9/2001, but it was cancelled due to 9/11. SWA reimplemented the type requirement to interview shortly after, so I was never rescheduled. Then they dropped the type requirement to interview, so I got a type last summer, but still cannot seem to get a call!

 

[Waitin' On LUV]

Don't feel bad, I interviewed the 1st time in 2000, without a type and reapplied July of 01'. switched to electronic app in Feburary of 04, and got my type in Aug. 04'. Southwest called in 24 days after I updated with type and I interviewed in Oct.


Hang in there I know it's tough waiting.

 

[boeingdriver213]

I applied Nov.2002, Reapplied on the new form in January, interviewed last month. Hoping to hear some good news soon.

 

[SizzleChest]

Don't go to HPA

I know it is too late but I just got off the phone with a buddy who just did his type at HPA and he said not to go there but goto K&S or the place in DEN for the type. It was NOT worth the $1500 premium he paid for the SWA affiliation...... Whatever you do don't waste your time there at HPA... save the $1500 and buy yourself something you need.....

 

[DH2WN]

I know it is too late but I just got off the phone with a buddy who just did his type at HPA and he said not to go there but goto K&S or the place in DEN for the type. It was NOT worth the $1500 premium he paid for the SWA affiliation...... Whatever you do don't waste your time there at HPA... save the $1500 and buy yourself something you need.....

BULL CRAP!!! HPA was the best training I ever had. Wouldn't trade them for anything..

 

[Chest Rockwell]

SWA does not care where you get your type. Anyone who tells you different is ill-informed. Some do a better job than others, but all that really matters is getting the type from a reputable operation. I believe that K&S are doing a discounted type for current 737 FOs. If your only experience in the 737 is during your type class, you will be even with everyone else that has the type only. I see no difference between the guys/girls that got a type 4 years ago vs 8 weeks prior to class. Your mind will still go blank the first time you sit in the right seat during IOE.

 

[SizzleChest]

dh2wn- He was in a class of 26! A little large don't you think especially when the SWA guy cam and you could not get any face time due to the size of the attacking stampede. The 8710s were messed up (no back side), SIM bids were not honored, instructor talked some crap to CHQ guys, hoptel vans not taking guys to sim at 12AM or returning at 4AM, CSS not working making it a glorified paper trainer, sked changes (oral, sim and type ride) w/o calls to affected crew... to name a few.... K&S will bring in a new instructor with 8 students so classes are not too large. FWIW for spending nearly 25+% of what you'll make this year I say go where you can get better treatment and more personalized instruction.... especially since it costs so much. You may have had a better experience but not with a class that size.....

 

[BOZO]

Ladies and Gents,

Does anybody have clear guidance on the logging of PIC for SWA? I spoke with Kim at the PD today and she said they've always told people that it's only PIC Turbine if you signed for the A/C. I take this to contradict their website intstructions, however. What gives? Before I apply I want to be certain so as to not seem like I'm trying to inflate my lowly hours! Wanna chime in on this one Chase or is this another PFT type of debate?

Bozo

 

[YellowLab]

I went to FTI in Denver, Great Training only 3 people in our class and only $5995 using the united sims. I really liked it. I'm sure they are all great so i would go with whats cheap in my opinion.

 

[Snoopy58]

bozo,

If there is a designated PIC & SIC, the guy who is designated as PIC logs the whole thing (for SWA purposes), and the SIC logs it as SIC. Do otherwise & you take great risk running afoul of the logbook checkers.

The footnote is for an operation where there is NO designated PIC, and two "co-captains" trade seats each leg with the guy in the left seat flying. Under Part 91, since there is no designated PIC beyond the guy signing the flight plan for that leg, if both are typed, both have the ability to be "the PIC" for "their" legs. (Not so under 121, 135, etc -- the captain is THE PIC, even though the f/o may be typed & even qualified as a captain -- if he ain't the one designated as the boss, his time {even his legs, even if they're in the left seat} doesn't count as PIC for SWA.)

Before SWA had the "further allows" footnote, guys flying for the military, 121, and 135 outfits AND those 91 operations that designated "you are in charge for the trip" had zero problems & zero ambiguity. However, some Part 91 outfits simply didn't designate any such Pilot In Command, and guys in that scenario asked, "how do I log my time here for SWA?" Thus the footnote: if you're in such an operation, with both guys typed, then your legs (i.e. you're the PF, sitting in the left seat, in charge for that leg) are PIC for you and you can log them as such.

However, if the guy sitting in the right seat talking on the radios for you is still the one responsible for the aircraft & makes the tough decisions, then HE should be logging every leg PIC, and while his partner, while perfectly legal to log pic for FAA purposes, is NOT doing what SWA wants to see as far as their application goes. If you're looking to the other guy for answers when the tough decisions come up (not CRM, but he's in charge), then you shouldn't be logging it as turbine PIC for SWA purposes. Conversely, once you ARE that guy in charge, put there by your company / aircraft owner / whomever, then every leg is legitimate PIC for you, regardless of seat or duties.

If the other guy can legitimately be logging every leg as PIC, then "what SWA wants" is NOT to see you logging your every other leg as such.

Hope that helps.

 

[FracCapt]

frac capt, when are you going down?

Mar 21. You?

at options, i dont think we really sign for anything. it states in the company papers that i am sic and he is pic. but we dont a thing. we are equally responsible and equal decision mkers.

While we may not physically sign anything for the aircraft, the PIC is responsible for it. 'Signing for an aircraft' is somewhat of a figure of speech. In 121 the Captain DOES sign the flight release, but most other operations don't do anything like that.

As far as equally responsible and equal decision makers....well, not exactly. If something goes wrong, the PIC will be the one to catch the worst of it from the company. As for who the FAA will go after in an accident/incident...well, depends on their current mood, it seems. When there is a disagreement in the cockpit about what should be done, ultimately the PIC makes the call. If my FO doesn't agree with something, if we can do something else that will keep us both happy....we will...but on rare occasions the PIC has to make a decision that somebody doesn't like. Of course, IMO, this only applies in flight. If you're on the ground and don't agree, you just don't do it. Period.

Gotta tell ya, though...when something goes wrong or one or both of us refuse to do something....I, as the PIC, am the one to get the call from my PM or Joe. Don't take this as me talking down to you...but you just haven't experienced being the "PIC" at this company, so you don't know exactly what we deal with. Trust me, it's no fun. If I could keep my Captain pay, I'd bid every slot from the top down as an FO.

 

[DH2WN]

dh2wn- He was in a class of 26! A little large don't you think especially when the SWA guy cam and you could not get any face time due to the size of the attacking stampede. The 8710s were messed up (no back side), SIM bids were not honored, instructor talked some crap to CHQ guys, hoptel vans not taking guys to sim at 12AM or returning at 4AM, CSS not working making it a glorified paper trainer, sked changes (oral, sim and type ride) w/o calls to affected crew... to name a few.... K&S will bring in a new instructor with 8 students so classes are not too large. FWIW for spending nearly 25+% of what you'll make this year I say go where you can get better treatment and more personalized instruction.... especially since it costs so much. You may have had a better experience but not with a class that size.....

I highly doubt HPA would do any of the above. If you booked yourself into a cheesy hotel then that isn't HPAs problem. I know for a fact they take care of people 110%. As far as SWA coming in; HPA doesn't advertise that it is going to help get an interview. It's informational. It's their superb caring and training that makes them well worth their money. I experienced it first hand. Our sim broke down and HPA had many choices for us to take within minutes of contacting them. Sims break like airplanes. Luckily, their astute attention to their customers saved the day. I would have given them another $1000 because the entire experience was worth it.

 

[MSquared]

Regarding HPA,

Yes, its a lot of money, and I dont personally know any of the other operations for types, but my experience there was outstanding. When I called them up from the start, I was deployed in the desert 8000 miles away and they still sent me my study material there. The folks who work there are great. I had only 11 dudes in my class and maybe 26 is a bit much, but with swa growing so quickly the other type rating options are also going to be getting bigger. My recommendation...talk to Sandy at HPA before making a decision.

m2

 

[NEDude]

I went to FTI in Denver, Great Training only 3 people in our class and only $5995 using the united sims. I really liked it. I'm sure they are all great so i would go with whats cheap in my opinion.

Great to hear because I just gave them a deposit. I have heard nothing but great things about HPA, but in the end, money is very tight and FTI got great reviews as well. I got the $5995 rate locked in just before the prices went up to $6395. The manuals are clear and easy to understand and Shari has been very helpful and informative. I'd give them a look if money is tight.

 

[milflyboy]

dh2wn- He was in a class of 26! A little large don't you think especially when the SWA guy cam and you could not get any face time due to the size of the attacking stampede. The 8710s were messed up (no back side), SIM bids were not honored, instructor talked some crap to CHQ guys, hoptel vans not taking guys to sim at 12AM or returning at 4AM, CSS not working making it a glorified paper trainer, sked changes (oral, sim and type ride) w/o calls to affected crew... to name a few.... K&S will bring in a new instructor with 8 students so classes are not too large. FWIW for spending nearly 25+% of what you'll make this year I say go where you can get better treatment and more personalized instruction.... especially since it costs so much. You may have had a better experience but not with a class that size.....

I was actually in that class and didn't exactly perceive things like your friend did. Neither did the guys in the class that I talked to. I thought the training was excellent and I would do it again in a heart beat. If your friend had that bad of an experience I hope he let HPA know.

- The guys from SWA stayed around half an hour after the brief and everybody who wanted to had a chance to go get a little one on one time with them.
- Yes, the 8710s did have a mistake that was fixed, One person made a mistake - Big deal !
- SIM bids as I understand it are honored depending on the date of your deposit. I however have a hard time understanding why anybody in our class can later complain that their SIM bids were not honored. The HP scheduling guy pretty much had to beg students in our class to fill the most attractive SIM slots - The SWA -300 SIMs with no past midnight time. The only problem was that transportation wasn't provided, but HP even offered to take care of that as well.
- CSS did break right before we got there and it hadn't been fixed when we left, but to be honest I don't think that it had a great impact on training that you didn't see lights etc. when you moved the switches.
- I didn't hear about the schedule changes where people didn't get the notice, but if that occurred it is of course unsat.
- I didn't think the large class size hampered anything. Instruction was excellent and during the end of the week the class was split up into smaller sizes. Besides I felt more than adequately prepared for the oral examination and everybody I spoke to excelled at the FAA oral.
- The SIM instruction was also great. I felt ready for the check ride pretty much after the 3rd sim with 2 more sims to go to fine tune stuff before the actual check. Single seat military guys, don't let the Civilian guys scare you about not being able to a adapt to a multi crew cockpit I felt it came to me pretty naturally and actually enjoyed the ability to be able to share the workload with a fellow crew member.
- All the people at HPA were class A !!!!. Very friendly and they went above and beyond to help everybody. CHASE even came by one of the days an treated us with lunch and great advise - Thanks CHASE !!!
- All 26 to my knowledge passed the program with no problems.

I would highly recommend Higher Power to anyone !!!

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

MilFLyBoy
As someone soon to head down to HPA, I appreciate you sharing your experience. I was a bit worried reading the bad post, but feel better now. Thanks.

 

[Bjammin]

Another company to look into is Aeroservice out of Miami. They give a $500 discount to Air Inc members and the Hotel was descent and had a van. Two of us were in the class, talk about VERY personal treatment. The books were great and we got treated to lunch as well. I got the call from SWA about 4 months later, but took Cathay Pacific instead.
I've heard good things about all these companies, I guess it's just better to have options and make an intelligent choice.

 

[Guam360]

Just finished at HPA, had a great experience there also. I had a sim partner that was a A-10 guy, now teaching t-38's, he did great in the crew environnment he had alot of questions but we worked it all out by the time of his ride.

Everyone did well, the SWA part was great, and in the class we had 21 to start, three were coming back at a later date for sim.

the last day for review we broke up into three classes 6. All the information we needed was available at all times. they even sign you out a key to come to the school after hours to study, use the computer based study, watch the sim training videos, or do flows at the paper CPT mock ups.

A+ program. close enough to walk if you stay at the Amersuites, 10 minutes, maybe less. we met chasee also, he took us to a great mexican place for lunch.

well worth every penny. especially if it leads to a job at SWA!!

 

[chase]

milflyboy,

Your welcome...hope the drivel was of some value...good luck!

 

[MotoX]

I don't think it really matters where you go as long as you get the type. Best of luck to all!

 

[FracCapt]

milflyboy,

Your welcome...hope the drivel was of some value...good luck!

Sounds like you drop by HPA fairly often...if you're gonna drop by while I'm there(Mar 21-Apr 3), let me know.

 

[milflyboy]

milflyboy,

Your welcome...hope the drivel was of some value...good luck!

Definitely was - Just like the excellent info your always provide here!

 

[toa2mdt]

fraccapt,
im heading down april 11. thanks for all the hpa info you guys.

 

[Mr Hat]

April 4th for me....right in between you guys.....(That doesnt sound right for some reason)

 

[frank rizzo]

You will only find small classes at Bond Aviation giving you more personalized instruction instead of the other mills that are a meat grinder. www.bondaviationservices.com

 

[FracCapt]

You will only find small classes at Bond Aviation giving you more personalized instruction instead of the other mills that are a meat grinder. www.bondaviationservices.com

You must be part of Bond Aviation because you plug them every chance you get. I considered them for a type rating, but I decided it wouldn't be a smart move since they couldn't even give me specific prices for the course - nor could they tell me where the sim would be. They said that it would be wherever they could book that week. Maybe they're more organized by now, but they need to - at the very least - update their website and give some better information about their training.