SWA training rumor?

[scoreboardII]

There's no "transition issue" with upgrade language, its the SWAPA contract, not a transition contract nor SLI.

 

[madjack]

Every tranny will be a SWA FO, just like every RSW pilot is/was...the plan is to still have ALL tranny's transitioned (to SWA FO) by thend of 2014...transitioned FAT FOs can bid SWA CP on 01/15....

 

[Skyboy722]

Every tranny will be a SWA FO, just like every RSW pilot is/was...the plan is to still have ALL tranny's transitioned (to SWA FO) by thend of 2014...transitioned FAT FOs can bid SWA CP on 01/15....

This is not a true statement. There will be hundreds of AT pilots flying 717s on New Year's Eve, 2014.

 

[Just thinking]

And on New Year's Day they will sit at home at their new SWA pay rates until they can get sequenced into the training center. Probably will have to bid for that training in seniority order. I would expect it would go in reverse order with the most senior Captains staying home (at guarantee) for a month or two or even longer. Enjoy the new year vacation gents.

As for the FAT pilots bidding for anything??there will not be a bid for the last couple of months of 2014. I would not expect any FAT pilot will be sitting in the left hand side until 2015 or later. Deferred deliveries and 88 aircraft short will give gk the flattish growth to 15% ROIC without having to do anything. The increased slots into LGA will provide a boost to the revenue without having to grow the airline. So long Jackson, Key West and Branson?.. hello big apple!

 

[HowardBorden]

This is not a true statement. There will be hundreds of AT pilots flying 717s on New Year's Eve, 2014.

Well there were only 88 to begin with, so by my calculations even if the whole fleet were still around that would only be 176 flying on New Years Eve?

The less literal interpretation would mean roughly 20 airframes on property for there to still be "hundreds" of pilots flying them. I doubt SWA is willing to let that many folks sit idle when they PARK the remaining airframes not yet transitioned as they have stated to the FAA.

 

[-9Capt]

Every tranny will be a SWA FO, just like every RSW pilot is/was...the plan is to still have ALL tranny's transitioned (to SWA FO) by thend of 2014...transitioned FAT FOs can bid SWA CP on 01/15....

Thanks for clearing that up.

I love the mentality of "if we had to be an FO, you have to be an FO." There's a big difference though, you volunteered for it, we didn't. One thing is for sure, there will be some (not many) that transition capt-capt.

 

[4day]

I think its time to find out what really is going to happen in DEC 2014. Airtran to SW bid that just closed had 1 class less than project. That leaves 1060 Guys still to be trained in 10 months, so 106 a month have to go to meet that ( will not happen) . The projection for March and April classes is only 120 guys trained, leaving 940 to be trained in 8 months at 117 per month. No way its going to happen.Throw in New hires and this training plan becomes more of a pipe dream by the minute. There will probably be a projection come out soon for May and beyond that will be the nail in the coffin for whether guys will be sent home or flying 717's in 2015 ( If SWAPA allows it) i.e. sec 6 hard bargaining . There will be no more "MGT says they can train everybody by DEC 2014".

 

[Skyboy722]

Well there were only 88 to begin with, so by my calculations even if the whole fleet were still around that would only be 176 flying on New Years Eve?

The less literal interpretation would mean roughly 20 airframes on property for there to still be "hundreds" of pilots flying them. I doubt SWA is willing to let that many folks sit idle when they PARK the remaining airframes not yet transitioned as they have stated to the FAA.

There will be 20-something 717s in the system when we ring in 2015. Those airplanes will be staffed with, yes, hundreds of pilots to fly them in the weeks leading up to that. Not sure your point???????

Or are you saying we'll park them early than that? Why would they do that?

And BTW, as long as your being literal, would it not take 352 pilots to fly 88 717s on New Year's Eve? Or would you have one crew fly the airplane ALL DAY?

 

[HowardBorden]

There will be 20-something 717s in the system when we ring in 2015. Those airplanes will be staffed with, yes, hundreds of pilots to fly them in the weeks leading up to that. Not sure your point???????

Or are you saying we'll park them early than that? Why would they do that?

And BTW, as long as your being literal, would it not take 352 pilots to fly 88 717s on New Year's Eve? Or would you have one crew fly the airplane ALL DAY?

Any 717's left after 12/31/2014 will have to be parked and cannot continue in revenue service, operating them after that date is a direct scope violation. SWA has formally informed the FAA that any airframes remaining after that date will be parked.

 

[4day]

Formally informing the FAA, or anybody for that matter, means absolutely nothing to this MGT team.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Thanks for clearing that up.

I love the mentality of "if we had to be an FO, you have to be an FO." There's a big difference though, you volunteered for it, we didn't. One thing is for sure, there will be some (not many) that transition capt-capt.

Ummm, not trying to open up a wound or anything, but you did volunteer for it. Remember the difference between the first and second agreement. Enough on that because it is history!!

I will agree that it is currently a possibility for a capt-capt transition, but it will depend on how SWA plays the training game. If they don't care, then it will happen. If they don't like it, they will manipulate the vacancies to ensure that every AT pilot does some time in the right seat. Time will tell.

 

[HowardBorden]

Formally informing the FAA, or anybody for that matter, means absolutely nothing to this MGT team.

Be that as it may, it does not relieve them from violating section 1 of our CBA.

 

[4day]

True. I just see SW mgt using it as a bargaining chip for your sec 6 that's has seemed to grind to a halt. Just a opinion. Time will tell.

 

[Skyboy722]

Howard--- we're in complete agreement. I was responding to this:

Every tranny will be a SWA FO, just like every RSW pilot is/was...the plan is to still have ALL tranny's transitioned (to SWA FO) by thend of 2014...transitioned FAT FOs can bid SWA CP on 01/15....

And saying that all AT will be certainly NOT be transitioned to SWA FO by the end of 2014.

 

[redflyer65]

Formally informing the FAA, or anybody for that matter, means absolutely nothing to this MGT team.

So your saying Southwest management will operate them after Jan 1, 2015? Maybe under the secret, black helicopter, SW B717 operational manual they've been working on.

Whatever is left will be parked.

 

[27 driver]

Well there were only 88 to begin with, so by my calculations even if the whole fleet were still around that would only be 176 flying on New Years Eve?

The less literal interpretation would mean roughly 20 airframes on property for there to still be "hundreds" of pilots flying them. I doubt SWA is willing to let that many folks sit idle when they PARK the remaining airframes not yet transitioned as they have stated to the FAA.

The original plan had 36 717's left in 2015. They are transitioning slower then planned. At 10 pilots per plane that would be 360 pilots sitting idle on 01/01/2015. Even if your 20 number is true that is still 200 pilots.

 

[shootr]

Operating 717's as SWA aircraft with, now, SWA crews in no way violates any contract or agreement. SWA has stated that they will not operate any 717's past Jan1, 2015. That statement is the only think they would violate. It would not stop them from changing their mind.

 

[Skyboy722]

Operating 717's as SWA aircraft with, now, SWA crews in no way violates any contract or agreement. SWA has stated that they will not operate any 717's past Jan1, 2015. That statement is the only think they would violate. It would not stop them from changing their mind.

SWA already petitioned the FAA to shut down the 717 program in 1/15. The document was posted to this forum a while back.

 

[HowardBorden]

Operating 717's as SWA aircraft with, now, SWA crews in no way violates any contract or agreement. SWA has stated that they will not operate any 717's past Jan1, 2015. That statement is the only think they would violate. It would not stop them from changing their mind.

I agree that operating 717's at SWA with pilots on the Southwest seniority list would not be a violation of the CBA. However, AirTran ceases to exist in 2015 and SWA does not and will not have a 717 program, therefore no way to operate them at SWA. SWA has told the FAA in writing that they will not develop a 717 program and any 717's that have not transitioned to Delta will be parked in 2015.

 

[FlyinGuy]

They should have developed a 717 program because they are going to need one when they buy Hawaiian!!

 

[Phlintstone]

Not to be a GBJ type but I am just having one of those pissed off days about it. What motivation exists for SWA to pay those that are not on the SWA side on 1/1/15? They have to be trained anyway. It cost nothing to send those home without pay. One departing dagger in the back of the FATies?

Dragging this ordeal out is ridiculous. Wave, Red, why is it taking so effn long?

Phred

 

[humveedriver]

Not to be a GBJ type but I am just having one of those pissed off days about it. What motivation exists for SWA to pay those that are not on the SWA side on 1/1/15? They have to be trained anyway. It cost nothing to send those home without pay. One departing dagger in the back of the FATies?

Dragging this ordeal out is ridiculous. Wave, Red, why is it taking so effn long?

Phred

Who knows. Wait 5 minutes and something will change. A few weeks ago an employee "asks Gary" in a video questionaire with the SWA CEO, if SWA will expand in the NY market. Gary goes on for about 5-7 minutes how NY expansion isn't a priority and how it's a "destination" city, meaning they feel obligated to provide the citizens of Lubbock a flight or two to the big Apple. Now they announce cutting 3 cities to accommodate 12 new LGA slots. OK. Not paying the pilots who haven't been provided an opportunity to transition? That's called a furlough isn't it? They can't furlough and hire at the same time. Only thing for certain is everyone will continue to be freaked out for a while because MGT isn't letting on.

 

[madjack]

All tranny's will be transitioned by 1/15, as SWA FOs, the training center can handle it....planes (717s) may sit idle, pilots won't....company buying used NG to replace....

 

[SWA Bubba]

All tranny's will be transitioned by 1/15, as SWA FOs, the training center can handle it....planes (717s) may sit idle, pilots won't....company buying used NG to replace....

That's the company's line, anyway. I suppose we'll see if they can pull it off.

Bubba

 

[Phlintstone]

Yea that is the company line and not surprised that MJ touts it as fact. SWA can never be wrong.

I do not have a whole lot of faith that all trannies will be transitioned by the deadline. All that has happened so far is that things get pushed to the right. It would not surprise me if there are new-hire training classes while some trannies sit at home without pay.

Phred

 

[Saluki Dawg]

All tranny's will be transitioned by 1/15, as SWA FOs, the training center can handle it....planes (717s) may sit idle, pilots won't....company buying used NG to replace....

They've been saying used -700's for awhile now. Still haven't seen any meaningful announcements made other than just for a handful spread out over the next three years or so. I'll believe it when I see it. Still pretty skeptical though.

 

[HowardBorden]

Yea that is the company line and not surprised that MJ touts it as fact. SWA can never be wrong.

I do not have a whole lot of faith that all trannies will be transitioned by the deadline. All that has happened so far is that things get pushed to the right. It would not surprise me if there are new-hire training classes while some trannies sit at home without pay.

Phred

I don't necessarily believe that all will be transitioned by 2015 either. However, the agreement states that ALL will be covered by the SWAPA CBA on 1/1/15 whether transitioned or not. There are no provisions in the CBA that will allow you to sit home without pay. At the very least, minimum guarantee will apply.

 

[scoreboardII]

How many AT 737 simulators are there? There's your training pipeline.

 

[Just thinking]

Don't have the instructors. Do you expect your sim instructors to violate their contract? Gk is getting his flattish. Increasing yield while cutting markets. Brilliant on his part. He has a flattish won't fly bag tag hanging from his urinal in his office that he uses before he heads out to the Monday deck party. Shut up and live with it. You have a job. You can leave if you don't like it. The big boys are hiring.

 

[scoreboardII]

Sure you have instructors, how long would it take them to spin them up to SWA standards, a week? Violate a contract? If the instructors are SWA instructors, no violation.

Increasing yields while cutting markets. Yep, markets which are low RASM routes. Putting jets on hi yield routes.