SWA to speed up Airtran integration.....article

[PCL_128]

WHAT! Not even a 4 year degree or 737 type rating? I'd be counting my lucky stars if I was you. You have a job thousands want and they should have it.... before you.

You never really "considered or wanted SWA" becuase they would NEVER have called you. You should be thanking Gary, not slaming him.

Slaming? Pretty sure that's not a word. There's more of that college superiority shining through.

 

[GoodTimes]

"SLI-1 was the first bit of spittle. It was insulting to our pilots."

It was insulting to ours, as well.

 

[canyonblue]

SLI-1 was the first bit of spittle. It was insulting to our pilots.

You were either unrealistic, or clueless. Either way, I can't believe you held any position within ALPA. It doesn't exactly make your pilot group look like a well informed or knowledgeable bunch. You feel that Gary schooled you, I can see why.

 

[scoreboardII]

Hey PCL, post the threatening letter....

 

[jonjuan]

WHAT! Not even a 4 year degree or 737 type rating? I'd be counting my lucky stars if I was you. You have a job thousands want and they should have it.... before you.

You never really "considered or wanted SWA" becuase they would NEVER have called you. You should be thanking Gary, not slaming him.

I personally think it's hilarious that one of the top ALPA generals will soon be #1 on the swapa list.

 

[SWAdude]

Hey PCL, post the threatening letter....

I was under the impression that there is no phantom letter.

Repeatedly asked for and always denied.

 

[redflyer65]

SLI-1 was the first bit of spittle. It was insulting to our pilots.

I'm confused. You mean the first deal that you guys worked hard to get and were fully briefed on? But when made public, you had to show 'outrage' to save face?

RF

 

[maxblast72]

I'm confused. You mean the first deal that you guys worked hard to get and were fully briefed on? But when made public, you had to show 'outrage' to save face?

RF

To give our esteemed ALPA Group B4 EVP credit, he was not part of the ATN MEC from June 2011 and beyond. I am sure he still had people on the inside he could get info on, but he wasn't part of the negotiations or direction giving by the MEC.

Straight up, the MC thought the list was not good, but that the big ATL fence, Captain Retention slot program, guaranteed pay raise on 4/1/12, guaranteed integration, and the fact that many SWA pilots were going to retire before the fences dropped was worthy of a vote. The MEC thought otherwise. Let me go see if I can dig up Gary Kelly's August 22, 2011 message that caused Lear70 to crap his pants.

 

[maxblast72]

Southwest CEO Kelly responded in the manner he had promised on July 14, 2011, stating, on August 22, 2011, that:

"I was disappointed that ALPA chose to reject the deal. I thought it was very well done and required some give and take on all parts, but it was certainly a very, very generous offer. The economy is in terrible shape and we have alarmingly high fuel costs, so this simply gives us an opportunity to take a step back and take a deep breath and revisit our integration plans going forward.... We've withdrawn our offer, in light of the current economic circumstances. . . . You know, this means that the integration process will continue, but will definitely work at a much slower pace. The whole idea behind that Agreement was to get expedited integration. . . . Ultimately, we're going to do what's in the best interest of our Southwest Airlines culture and our business."

 

[717capt]

Straight up, the MC thought the list was not good, but that the big ATL fence, Captain Retention slot program, guaranteed pay raise on 4/1/12, guaranteed integration, and the fact that many SWA pilots were going to retire before the fences dropped was worthy of a vote. The MEC thought otherwise. Let me go see if I can dig up Gary Kelly's August 22, 2011 message that caused Lear70 to crap his pants.

See max right there is the problem. The MC went to Dallas (prematurely in my opinion. First the NC should have gone out and negotiated a joint cba and after that was ratified by both groups, then you start talking about sli) anyway, the mc went to Dallas, brought back an agreement, the MEC voted no and then you guys went of the reservation. By your actions and posts on forums and in the crew room, you created animosity and a further division amongst the AirTran pilots. I realize that the agreement was your baby and that you guys worked hard for about a year and a half being away from family and friends, but not you, nor Frank nor Tim or Jack were part of the MEC. The MEC decided what they thought was the appropriate course of action and the mc derailed the entire process because of your personal feelings and needs. Your still doing it. See all that does is make it look like you were not really interested in doing anything for the AirTran pilot group but were only in it for yourself. What you guys should have done after the no vote, was get together with the mec and come up with a strategy as to what's next. But no. You ran with it causing pilots to start a facebook page. Sending e-mails to sw begging for jobs, infighting and recalls and the end result is what we have now. I can only imagine what sw and swapa, as well as our fellow pilots at other airlines were thinking when all this went down. You volunteered to be on the mc. Gave up a portion of your life spent in negotiations, hotel rooms, flights going back and forth between ATL, Dallas and Washington and everything else that goes into it, and for that I thank you for your time. But give it a rest man. Oh and by the way. Please don't send me any more personal messages talking about anger issues and the like. I'm not interested. Good day.

 

[Phlintstone]

717CAPT, I wholeheartedly agree. The lack of direction and leadership from the MEC chair is one of the main contribution factors to this fiasco. With no leadership, people tend to get what they can for themselves and fail to look at the big picture.

The MC and NC did the best they could under the circumstances and I too thank them for their time and effort, but Max, quit trying to play yourself off as the hero. As someone recently wrote to you on the ALPA forum, get a life...

Phred

 

[PCL_128]

Hey PCL, post the threatening letter....

Sorry, I didn't save a copy.

 

[JT12345]

This is so simple.

AAI was out numbered 3 to 1 and Gary Kelly did what was best for the majority. In war the side with greater numbers usually wins.

I thought this might me different with the whole SWA culture thing. That even though we were smaller that the majority would step up, and bring us in differently. Different than American/TWA or USAir/AWA, but it was not.

The reason why there was so much uncertain whether there were threats to our jobs was Southwest management. There was nothing in writing till after the vote on SLI1. Just rumors. They could have made the threats much more clear directly to the AAI if they wanted to. I simple letter like the one put out after the first vote would have nullified Antony's lies or should I say perceptions about the threats made on July 14th. Till this day the only explanation for me why SWA management did not put out a letter was because they did not want the first deal SLI1 to pass.

I can't believe you losers are still going on with this for 50 pages.

 

[redflyer65]

Straight up, the MC thought the list was not good, but that the big ATL fence, Captain Retention slot program, guaranteed pay raise on 4/1/12, guaranteed integration, and the fact that many SWA pilots were going to retire before the fences dropped was worthy of a vote. The MEC thought otherwise. Let me go see if I can dig up Gary Kelly's August 22, 2011 message that caused Lear70 to crap his pants.

That kind of puts it all in perspective. Thanks Max.

 

[SWA/FO]

PCL no college, no type rating and bitches that he is being treated unfair. Sounds like one lucky SOB to me. Now free Obama money is great, but this is not to shabby either. A job with the best airline in the business. An airline that has never furloughed a Pilot?

 

[canyonblue]

I thought this might me different with the whole SWA culture thing. That even though we were smaller that the majority would step up, and bring us in differently. Different than American/TWA or USAir/AWA, but it was not.

What, pray tell, would you have preferred? Keep in mind you would have to satisfy 6000 people who worked their a$$es off to get where they were at SWA. Throw in a Type rating, 1000 PIC turbine and the club gets a little exclusive.

 

[FlyinGuy]

I thought this might me different with the whole SWA culture thing. That even though we were smaller that the majority would step up, and bring us in differently. Different than American/TWA or USAir/AWA, but it was not.

This type of quote really baffles me. Maybe I am narrow minded, but how would you expect SWAPA to negotiate culture? Hey guys, common over...do you guys want relative with fences or we could just do DOH?

It was SWAPA's job to get the best deal for it's pilots, just like it was ALPA's job to do the best for it's group.

Many of you keep mixing culture with the SLI and I don't see how they relate.

Anyways, the deal is the deal. Like it or not we will all be wearing the same ID's and trying to make it to retirement with a small stack of coins. See ya'll on the line....

 

[dicko]

I don't know if this is the right time or place, but this investigation made me pause and reflect on how lucky we are in many ways.

I present to you ..... Life as a pilot at Ryanair. Part 1.

http://reporter.kro.nl/seizoenen/20.../extras/mayday_mayday_-_international_version

Part 2.

http://reporter.kro.nl/seizoenen/20...extras/mayday_mayday_part_2_-_english_version

I'm glad to say that I've never had to face a management group that created a competitive list of pilots fuel use.

 

[maxblast72]

See max right there is the problem. The MC went to Dallas (prematurely in my opinion. First the NC should have gone out and negotiated a joint cba and after that was ratified by both groups, then you start talking about sli) anyway, the mc went to Dallas, brought back an agreement, the MEC voted no and then you guys went off the reservation.

We would have loved to split this baby into 2 separate track, SLI and CBA, but SWA management would even entertain that idea. In their minds, it was one big puzzle that had to be solved with one package. We could have 13a'd them, but that had it's own risks.

By your actions and posts on forums and in the crew room, you created animosity and a further division amongst the AirTran pilots. I realize that the agreement was your baby and that you guys worked hard for about a year and a half being away from family and friends, but not you, nor Frank nor Tim or Jack were part of the MEC.

The Merger Committee was basically a committee picked by the MEC (or at least the chairman who then picks his committee). The Merger Committee got aggressive with communication right after AIP #1 was signed due to the MEC leaking misinformation almost immediately after our conference call on July 17th.

The MEC decided what they thought was the appropriate course of action and the mc derailed the entire process because of your personal feelings and needs. Your still doing it. See all that does is make it look like you were not really interested in doing anything for the AirTran pilot group but were only in it for yourself.

If the MEC was going to vote down SIA #1, they should have had the balls to fire the MC as well. Not sure what you mean by own personal needs. My wife and I do fine and live off less than 60% of what we make at AirTran. The Merger Committee wanted 30 days of roadshows to fully explain what we were looking at and why we did what we did. If 50.1% of the pilots said not good enough, we were ready to continue negotiating further or go to arbitration. I am still debating SLI on here for practice and to learn different angles as I am sure the lawyers will be doing when I get deposed for the DFR lawsuit.

What you guys should have done after the no vote, was get together with the mec and come up with a strategy as to what's next. But no. You ran with it causing pilots to start a facebook page. Sending e-mails to sw begging for jobs, infighting and recalls and the end result is what we have now.

The MC actually held a few Friday roadshows at Pascals trying to calm everyone down and tell them arbitration would be OK. However, after Gary Kelly's email on Aug 22nd, that was easier said than done. Even Lear70 was crapping his pants post Aug 22nd.

I can only imagine what sw and swapa, as well as our fellow pilots at other airlines were thinking when all this went down. You volunteered to be on the mc. Gave up a portion of your life spent in negotiations, hotel rooms, flights going back and forth between ATL, Dallas and Washington and everything else that goes into it, and for that I thank you for your time. But give it a rest man.

I won't rest until the DFR case is over. Reading this thread is voluntary.

Oh and by the way. Please don't send me any more personal messages talking about anger issues and the like. I'm not interested. Good day.

Go ahead and post the actual message I sent you. You have my permission.

 

[scoreboardII]

Sorry, I didn't save a copy.

So you don't have a copy of the letter you are introducing as evidence, right...