SWA TA Vote

[shootr]

3. no reason to have it in any airline pilot labor contract

Thanks for making my point!

 

[RDG]

Read it again and again dude the domestic codeshare veto would still apply.

What protects us under the current CBA?

As others have already pointed out, you obviously don't understand what you read. And since we are on the subject, when SWA did not meet the growth requirement for continued codeshare, what price did they pay?

Oh, that's right...we won't meet the growth requirement....too bad...so sad...we are codesharing anyway.

 

[vv100]

As others have already pointed out, you obviously don't understand what you read. And since we are on the subject, when SWA did not meet the growth requirement for continued codeshare, what price did they pay?

Oh, that's right...we won't meet the growth requirement....too bad...so sad...we are codesharing anyway.

Oh he understands it all right. Believe me.

 

[BeachBummer]

I've got nothin in this battle but some friends on the swa side of the fence. You guys had best take a long hard look at UAL, DAL and Midwest. The outsourcing of your work will not come back once it leaves! Think long and hard before you let some one else do your flying for you domestically or international.

Nothin against the regional guy, I worked at two and we all come from one place or another, but this small jet crap is going to destroy whats left of the industry. Don't let them take your work away from you!

 

[GuppyWN]

You got that right but guys are seeing dollar signs and are convinced we can't do any better in these "uncertain" economic times.

Did I tell you the raise is 2% and for that we trade basically all say in near international codeshare and only "BoD approval" on domestic codeshare?

Did I also tell you that the sellout some-bitches that approved this are the same guys that get the say so?

We're screwed.
Gup

 

[Daddy]

I agree with Gup 100%...we have a bunch of dumbass pilots who are willing to trust their family's future that mgmt will do the right thing...sounds great on a greeting card but not so good in a contract. It is almost surreal how shortsighted some people are but I guess that is the nature of the beast when you are labor...I am just not used to it...

 

[BlueBlood]

Doesn't SWA hire YES voters? I mean, isn't that who they target? Middle-aged/retired O-5's and O-6's and civilians that have been abused to the point of caring less about money as the "luv" they experience from their employer-that's what SWA hires isn't it?

They don't hire militants. Granted, they seem to be making some, but I don't see a group of cooperative souls throwing rocks at Mr. Kelly.

Maybe I'm wrong. I know many there and wonder when the day will come when the pilots at WN tell everyone else to go suck it. One of my mates from a few years ago is a PHX fo and says that the cuts in capacity has really hurt some of the pilots, but the crews are the only ones sharing the burden. Is this accurate?

If that's the case, I'd be pissed too.

 

[Mach 80]

The angst on this TA is simply very misplaced dissapointment in growth stopping at SWA. When an airline is growing and everyone is steadily moving up in seniority and upgrading, there's no problems and no issues. No one's upgraing in 4 to 5 years any more and the dissapointment is simply being (incorrectly) transferred onto the back of this TA. Any other major passenger airline pilot would be very happy with this TA. The pay rates are great (do compare them to other 737 operators) , retro, the scheduling area is fine despite the over-riding fear in something new, and the code share/scope is better than any other airline. The no votors are absolutely nuts, some of them being led by a Pied Piper of a few senior guys who dislike the union leader (one of them ran against him and was trounced). No matter, this thing is going to pass. The people voting yes feel no need to be living on the internet telling everyone why. Don't let the loud minority fool you into thinking this thing is going to get turned down.

 

[AlbieF15]

I think the limits on trip trading and the code share are the biggest gripes... Everyone knows growth has slowed, especially with age 65. Your job now is to make your FO job as bearable as possible. It seems to this outside perspective the only winners on this TA are the senior captains, and the FOs don't get much more than a slightly improved 401k.

Stagnation is here. Its at other carriers too. Where you sit when the music stops counts, and you want it to be as comfy a spot as possible.

 

[GuppyWN]

You're right Mach80. If we were growing it would be much easier to stomach -

• less pay raise than other SWA work groups
• basically unrestricted near-international codeshare
• unrestricted continued codeshare w/purchase of a carrier
• reduced ELITT
• reduced trading ability (increased DTC)
• loss of one leg on SWA codeshare
• loss of restriction that now allows SWA to sell other carriers tickets
• loss of 1/2 of lance captains
• loss of mach adjustment (more block for same pay)
• loss of cancellation pay
• 4 day cap on ELITTing down
• 9 day cap on lance captain pick up
• ability of out of base captain to trounce in base lance
• loss of max trip pull for vacation (1 more hour to get you to base)

I could go on but you, and others, get the point.

It aint the lack of growth brother. This TA sucks all by itself.

Gup

 

[Mach 80]

3% of % $30 is 90 cents.

2% of $173 is $3.46. That extra 1% equites to a lot more money to SWA. I can live with it.

Near I'ntl; It IS restricted and besides, I can live with it. SWA wouldn't be doing those routes anyway anytime in the next several years and the incremental revenue help us otherwise.

Purchase and code share -- can't be expanded beyond what they were already doing.

ELITT -- very small decrease. I love the "decreased flexibility" line you guys throw around. Why don't you just say it -- "I want out of my weekend flying". Too many trips were being dumped into the weekends resulting in a problem for scheduling. One reason I came to SWA was due to their efficiency-- doing unnecessary and easily correctable JA on weekends doens't fit the mold. No problem for me.

What was the purpose of Lances and does it exist anymore? The answer - rapid growth, and no. They are on the F/O seniority list, not the Captain list. Extra and unecessary training costs to keep them current for a purpose that has died out.

Mach adjustment was traded for the 5 minute thing instead of 12. A fair trade-off.

Loss of cancellation pay is a total falsehood and misconstruement of the TA. ...was explained several times in SWAPA explanations, but please DO continue to mislead everyone anyway.

9 -day CAP of Lance pick-up: No wonder...some guys flying so much Captain that they are screwing up F/O dutes from a lack of F/O duites.

BTW, only 196 Lance Captains out of 5900 pilots, so...big deal anyway. The company wanted too much that would have harmed the rest of the piulots too much if SWAPA wanted the Lance program saved.

Everything else -- no big deal and not as bad as some make it out.

If you are not a SWA pilot -- know that there is another side of the story the guys who live on the internet don't want you to know.

 

[GuppyWN]

3% of % $30 is 90 cents.

2% of $173 is $3.46. That extra 1% equites to a lot more money to SWA. I can live with it.

Near I'ntl; It IS restricted and besides, I can live with it. SWA wouldn't be doing those routes anyway anytime in the next several years and the incremental revenue help us otherwise.

Purchase and code share -- can't be expanded beyond what they were already doing.

ELITT -- very small decrease. I love the "decreased flexibility" line you guys throw around. Why don't you just say it -- "I want out of my weekend flying". Too many trips were being dumped into the weekends resulting in a problem for scheduling. One reason I came to SWA was due to their efficiency-- doing unnecessary and easily correctable JA on weekends doens't fit the mold. No problem for me.

What was the purpose of Lances and does it exist anymore? The answer - rapid growth, and no. They are on the F/O seniority list, not the Captain list. Extra and unecessary training costs to keep them current for a purpose that has died out.

Mach adjustment was traded for the 5 minute thing instead of 12. A fair trade-off.

Loss of cancellation pay is a total falsehood and misconstruement of the TA. ...was explained several times in SWAPA explanations, but please DO continue to mislead everyone anyway.

9 -day CAP of Lance pick-up: No wonder...some guys flying so much Captain that they are screwing up F/O dutes from a lack of F/O duites.

BTW, only 196 Lance Captains out of 5900 pilots, so...big deal anyway. The company wanted too much that would have harmed the rest of the piulots too much if SWAPA wanted the Lance program saved.

Everything else -- no big deal and not as bad as some make it out.

If you are not a SWA pilot -- know that there is another side of the story the guys who live on the internet don't want you to know.

1. You shouldn't HAVE to live with a 33% smaller raise than our SWA peers.

2. How do you know SWA wouldn't want to fly to Mexico or Canada "for several more years?"

3. I fly weekends now. It's not that I want out but there is no reason to give away flexibility.

4. Lances - you say "extra costs" - They get to take 2 checkrides a year still and how much will it cost to re-upgrade those that choose to let go of captain ability?

5. Mach adjustment for 5 minute overfly? Why trade?

6. We absofrigginlutely lost cancellation pay. Under todays contract you get reroute and cancelled pay. The TA gives you the higher of, not both.

7. You say guys are screwing up FO duties because they only fly captain? How about requiring a multi day paring a month in seat instead of limiting how proficient they can be in the left seat? Can you say "senior boys are whining about little ole FO's stealing their flying?"

8. Lances - you say "big deal" - I say it's just plane wrong to screw our coworkers like that. It's just not the right thing to do.

I like how you say everything else is no big deal and not as bad as it's made out to be. Add it up Mach. The load gets pretty heavy.

Batter up,
Gup

 

[firstthird]

mach80 has his.

 

[The Prussian]

mach80 has his.

Seniority envy is an age old disease....


Fear not...there is a cure...it's called.......time.

 

[Devil Dawg]

A no vote won't kill the Golden Goose. Let's send this thing back so we can squeeze some more eggs out of the old girl!!