SWA TA Passes

[Flying the Line]

Not a lance and haven't been for almost 9 years. I am not crying.




OK, whatever works for you......

As I said, I will never understand this pilot group......

That is exactly the seniority I pegged you for after reading your first post.

 

[Tripower455]

That is exactly the seniority I pegged you for after reading your first post.

Why? They aren't the only ones getting hosed, although they are getting the brunt of it.

 

[Whataburger]

I am not gonna argue with you, but this is essentially the same POS that TA1 was, with less money.

Oh, and not only did I vote no on TA1, I was deeply involved in the grass roots efforts that got it shot down. I figured (incorrectly) that we, as a group, finally woke up, and that most would see TA2 as, at best, break even with TA1.

Now, as the "interpretation, errrr..... implementation plan" is enacted, we'll get to see what we really got, or didn't...... I am sure that the scheduling policy handbook is back from the printers already.

If you were a one-man negotiation committee, what would you do to make this the "perfect" contract?

 

[murano]

TA2 is better than TA1, no doubt. But it still wasn't good enough for me. I've got 30 years to go at this place and giving away our near-int'l flying is just plain wrong. I refuse to vote on anything that allows the outsourcing of my job. At some point in the near future domestic flying is going to reach max capacity and we'll have nowhere to go but int'l. We let that cat out of the bag with the 4%. Ok, so we locked-down far-int'l. Yay. I don't see Gary buying 777s so we can go to Tokyo.

We can fly to Mexico, the Caribbean and Canada ourselves, right now, with 737s. Why SWAPA was not budging on far-int'l but gave away near-int'l still confuses the hell out of me. They've got the "good" and "bad" codeshare all mixed up.

But that's just my opinion. Sorry I'm now in the 13% minority.

 

[turn&pull]

I voted No...A lot of years and money negotiating and we get a contract that we could have achieved in a weekend with a couple of good side-letters...We didn't need a Section 6 for this.

Oh well...I am part of SWAPA so I guess we voted yes.

 

[OCP]

So does the TA define "RJ"? The 170-190s are really not at all "RJs".

 

[Widow's Son]

Tripower,

The way the vote turned out and the pummeling that the no vote candidates like Wells and JD took, it will be interesting how the runoff candidates handle the vote results in their campaign.

I'm not so sure that "I don't understand you guys" is going to play all that well for a wannabe rep.

 

[Tripower455]

Tripower,

The way the vote turned out and the pummeling that the no vote candidates like Wells and JD took, it will be interesting how the runoff candidates handle the vote results in their campaign.

I'm not so sure that "I don't understand you guys" is going to play all that well for a wannabe rep.

Whatever.

 

[FlyinGuy]

I was a no voter on TA1 but voted yes on TA2. #2 does not fix everything. There is no way that Carl and the BoD would be able to do better than what we have now. They sold us a little short several years ago. Besides our contract was written in 1994. There is no way that we can fix everything in one go round (especially in this economy). I am not happy, but I am comfortable with this deal and I will vote for execs and BoD members that will be aggressive in our next round.

 

[Empennage]

I voted No...A lot of years and money negotiating and we get a contract that we could have achieved in a weekend with a couple of good side-letters...We didn't need a Section 6 for this.

Oh well...I am part of SWAPA so I guess we voted yes.

I have to agree with you. This took over 3 years.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

I agree.
For me the biggest improvement in TA2 was the change in RJ codeshare language. Because I used to work for a RJ carrier that took flying away from mainline. My company was increasingly serving markets with RJs that previously were flown by A320s and DC-9s.

But you got yours right? Funny how many of "no RJ" guys here at SWA got their jobs at SWA because the weak scope at majors led to their upgrade/pic in RJ's.

I agree with what you say though - just busting your chops. Section one much better written in TA2. Worth the delay in pay raise for me.

 

[lookin4better]

Only if we get a side letter to negate the part of the new contract that prohibits RJ flying unless SWAPA pilots fly it.

That's great news! I'm sure there would be plenty of kids high fiving over getting to fly around an rj with SW colors for farmed out contract work. RJs flown by other than mainline pilots are a huge part of why this job is not what it used to be.

 

[b747dogg]

Increased pay, retro! Voted yes both times! Haven't been screwed at SWA yet.

 

[Whataburger]

I can't speak for everyone, but we aren't "No RJ" guys. We are "If we get RJs, we wanna fly them ourselves" guys.

 

[Whataburger]

RJs flown by other than mainline pilots are a huge part of why this job is not what it used to be.

Very true. But a legacy I was involved with wanted no part of "Small Jet" flying. They gave it away and chose to farm it out.

We are trying to think ahead and protecting our jobs. Only time will tell if we did it right.

 

[Caveman]

I agree.
For me the biggest improvement in TA2 was the change in RJ codeshare language. Because I used to work for a RJ carrier that took flying away from mainline. My company was increasingly serving markets with RJs that previously were flown by A320s and DC-9s.

Let me offer a minor correction that had major consequences. The RJ carriers didn't take anything. It was foolishly given to them by mainline pilots. The fault of all this outsourcing lies squarely on the shoulders of mainline pilots, specifically DAL. Comair was the U.S. launch customer for the CRJ and the DAL MEC allowed it.

 

[mynameisjim]

But you got yours right? Funny how many of "no RJ" guys here at SWA got their jobs at SWA because the weak scope at majors led to their upgrade/pic in RJ's.

I agree with what you say though - just busting your chops.

I think often the RJ Guys are now "no RJ" guys because they saw directly how the outsourcing helped their 'job' but hurt their career.

 

[chase]

No previous RJ experience (caveat),

No single pilot would've stopped what happened when DAL or whatever mainline group first had the opportunity to alter the cycle of "big" vs "small" IMHO. No one is to blame, businesses evolve, careers do also.

Some of the absolutely best pilots I fly with at SWA are previous RJ pilots from every company out there....I'm very grateful for their training, experience and most importantly their experience.

For an ex-RJ pilot who is now mainline to object to their company placing restrictions on future RJ growth is completely reasonable but certainly not hypocritical. RJ flying is here to stay...those positions will be out there as long as we have mainline. Putting all pilots at a carrier with RJ flying on a single seniority list is the evolution of the business model....this would've happened in the case of the Lynx folks with F9 if that deal had gone through...I see this next evolution, if it had occurred, as a good thing.

There are enough reasons to rag on each other but accusing former RJ pilots of hypocrisy for expressing their views about the current RJ/mainline debate doesn't honestly acknowledge the obvious lessons learned through the years and the impact those earlier decisions made have had on the longterm health of careers at mainline. Current and former RJ pilots are great pilots and deserve great praise for slugging it out they way they have (I was military and have the utmost respect for their professional progression...not sure I would've stuck with it the way they have!) and the hope is that decisions made now will better the careers for all but that is a long term view and doesn't negate the short-term impact of how RJ flying is developing today...BTW, they are the only folks hiring today (except for Allegiant I believe).

 

[BE200drvr]

Why? They aren't the only ones getting hosed, although they are getting the brunt of it.

No one is getting hosed. Can you say self inflated sense of entitlement really fast ten times.....

 

[Floatplane]

No one is getting hosed. Can you say self inflated sense of entitlement really fast ten times.....

I think there is a word for that, hummm I know, "Pilot". LOL