Swa Pool

[Chest Rockwell]

March class is likely to be mostly the returning 60+ guys and girls. Same new hire training as anyone off the street, but may not have first 100 hour landing restrictions.

 

[obadie]

I thought the returning guys had to wait until SWA started interviewing again.

 

[AuburnAviator]

March class will probably not be the 60+ guys because that process is just now getting started and they still have to go through the hiring process. Not all obviously will be hired. Flt Ops just had the meeting yesterday about this subject.....

 

[GFunk20]

Well thats a good way to weed the bad ones out, but what a slap in the face! Work at SWA for 30 years and now you can't get rehired to be an FO. Ouch.

 

[captain dad]

Well thats a good way to weed the bad ones out, but what a slap in the face! Work at SWA for 30 years and now you can't get rehired to be an FO. Ouch.

Each his own and God love'em, but why would someone work say 20 plus years, be realtively high in seniority and pay, be forced to retire (age 60), and then come back at the bottom of the list in pay and seniority, in a slow, if not stagnant hiring situation?
I mean I love to fly, but I really don't understand that one. Is there a hidden benefit that I am missing? Do you get to keep seniority or pay? What reason and Why?

 

[vikesfanIV]

Each his own and God love'em, but why would someone work say 20 plus years, be realtively high in seniority and pay, be forced to retire (age 60), and then come back at the bottom of the list in pay and seniority, in a slow, if not stagnant hiring situation?
I mean I love to fly, but I really don't understand that one. Is there a hidden benefit that I am missing? Do you get to keep seniority or pay? What reason and Why?

I had the exact same question. From what I've heard there was a lot of interest from the 60+ crowd initially but once they found out they would be an FO sitting reserve in Oakland/Vegas for the next year not that many are interested. I've heard no more than 20 but who knows for sure. That being said, I can't believe it's even that many. The only benefit I can see is the great health plan and maybe the 401k for a few more years, but they should be multi-millionares if they've been flying with SWA for the past 20 years. The other answer is that they ARE multi-millionares, love the company and just want to stay active for a few more years before they start golfing every day.

 

[GFunk20]

I guess they figure a couple more years of 50k-100k earnings is that much less they have to drain out of their retirement.

Who knows. My friend who is a 16 year Capt says he only personally knows of one guy who is reapplying.

 

[vixin]

Because they have no life. Or they think they will weasal their way into the GO and get a huge raise. Who knows I am sure we now have 20 new VP's in the future.

 

[GuppyWN]

Just because I'm a smartass I can't wait to fly with one of these guys so I can give him some "techniques" on how to fly the mighty 737.

The real question is...... why would the company even want these guys back? They are going to be here for 4.5 years max. Look at what it'll cost to train them vs. years of return.

I thought this place hired "captains", not career FO's.

Gup

 

[huronip]

Well thats a good way to weed the bad ones out, but what a slap in the face! Work at SWA for 30 years and now you can't get rehired to be an FO. Ouch.

I think the hiring standards at SWA have changed a little over the past 30 years. Just because you met the standard 30 years ago doesn't mean you meet today's standards. Just because you have worked somewhere for 30 years doesn't mean that you should have. Obviously SWA management realizes this, or they would take all of the guys/gals back.

 

[AlbieF15]

Sounds like LUV is going to import some HATE into the mix.

What do you think a poolie will do when faced with a class date that keeps sliding right as older guys jump in front of the line? At what point would a number 300 guy tear up that lottery ticket?

Tough times. Great people on all sides--but a nasty situation. I wish all the poolies the very best...

 

[THEPRFCT10]

Has anyone heard on a Mar date? PD told me to call them next week, but I was just wondering. Hang in there, guys!

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Between 40-50 +60 guys.girls. They can be interviewed in a week (probably no LOI). Background check will be very quick. Posing their names for comment will take more time than anything else. They will be given a good picture of what their seniority/advancement will be over the next 4-5 years. Anyone's guess as to how many will reconsider if offered a class.

 

[FlyinGuy]

I still think some of these guys think that somehow they will slide over to the left seat...They will find out that the company that they retired from is not the same one that they reapplied to. It is different when you get to chose your capt line vs. commuting to OAK to sit reserve. Remember, no one picks up that weekend trash that they will be getting!

 

[jke406]

From another forum...looks like Tanker Clown was right again.

Dear Southwest Airlines Pilot Poolie,
We recently mailed you a copy of the December issue of LUVLines, and we hope you’re
enjoying it and that it’s helped you to learn more about the Southwest operation, Culture, and
Family. As you know, we have committed to keeping you informed of your status in our hiring
pool, and of any events that might effect your potential class dates. I’m sure that you are aware
of the recent passing of H.R. 4343, The Fair Treatment of Experienced Pilots Act. As a
Company, we are pleased to be able to keep some of our most experienced and capable Pilots
flying for us, and since the signing of the bill, we have had a Team working on the process
involved in the rehiring of our retired Captains who are interested in returning to Southwest.
The goal of this Team has been to do the right thing for everyone involved: our current Pilots,
our retired Pilots, and you, our future Southwest Pilot Candidates. We know that this particular
issue evokes a wide range of emotions in Pilots, but we wanted to personally share with you
what decisions we have made, and our hope is that you will see the reasons for, and value in,
our choices.
We are excited to be able to offer the opportunity for our interested, retired Pilots (who
meet all of our current requirements) to interview for a First Officer position, pursuant to the
terms of H.R. 4343. Those retired Pilots who wish to apply will be interviewing with us in
February, and if they successfully complete the selection process, they will be placed in the first
available class. We do understand that this could affect your potential class date, and we ask
for your understanding and patience in reaching your goal of becoming a part of our outstanding
group of professional aviators. As soon as we know how many Pilots will be rehired, we will
advise you as to if and how this affects your potential class date.
We know this news might be disappointing for you, but we suspect that it won’t come as
too great a surprise to those who have a good understanding of our commitment to taking care
of our Family, and we hope you’ll keep in mind that this same level of commitment and concern
will also be afforded to you when you become a member of the Southwest Family. Meanwhile,
we want you to know that throughout this process, we have given very careful consideration to
how this unprecedented set of circumstances could affect your future, and we have done our
best to do the right thing. We truly appreciate your continued interest in becoming a part of the
Southwest Family, and we thank you for your patience as we bring Pilots onboard this year to
meet the hiring needs of the Company. Please feel free to contact us with any questions you
have.
Sincerely,
The People and Flight Operations Departments

 

[Tanker Clown]

I don't know why people never believe me. Whatever. I'll keep you all posted on anything else that comes down the pipe. Looks to me like if you are at the bottom of the pool you should plan to wait another year or so.

 

[waveflyer]

Amazing.

 

[AlbieF15]

Amazing.

I've got several friends in the pool...in both the deep and shallow ends. So I write this trying to avoid sounding like I'm rubbing salt into the wounds...that is NOT the case...

SWA is faced with a choice. Be loyal to a bunch of folks who've spent a lot of time, money, and effort to join the team...or loyal to some guys who helped build the airline into what it is today. I think anyone who'd want to go back to the bottom of seniority list at age 60 obviously has some issues...either personal or financial...but it is their choice with the law change.

The hard, cold lesson I see in this situation or any other "pool" or "awaiting class" situation is you have NOTHING from the company but a promise. And that promise can be broken in a heartbeat when things change. As much as you want to feel "special" while waiting for a class, you have no ID, no insurance, no seniority number, and no union protection. You have no legal rights (as far as I know) against being hired in any order the company chooses to use.

So--what do you do in a pool? If you happy where you are...maybe nothing. If you are unhappy or hoping for bigger and better things...you better consider throwing out apps while you tread. How many line numbers could some of you have gotten if you were at CAL, DAL, NetJets, or another carrier right now? While it might seem "nasty" to go somewhere else and quit in a year or two to go to SWA, there is always a chance you won't. I know a few folks who are now at DAL that were in the SWA pool at one point. I suspect several of them will stay there when they finally get the invite. For those who think that type of thinking is "disloyal"...what has loyalty to a company that just put 40-60 folks in front of you got you?

SWA is a great company that runs a lean business. They will run as lean as they can to ensure their margins stay right and they make money in a tough market. You are expendable--until you are on the team. Plan accordingly. I am willing to be that a super long swim in the pool might equal another short pass through HR for an interview. Why? Well...if they'd interview a guy who was working there for years before rehiring him, what do you think they will do if you are in the pool for 2-3 years?

Again--not trying to wish bad on anyone. Just trying to remind some of you to stay agile and consider all your options. I wish all of you the very best.

 

[Tanker Clown]

I really don't think there is anything "disloyal" or "dishonest" about picking up a paycheck at Delta or some other place until SWA calls. I agree with Albie on this. Airlines have shown how loyal and honest they can be to pilots by furloughing, cutting pay, and taking exec bonuses. If you have a family to feed, go and pick up a paycheck for a year. It's no more dishonest or disloyal as grabbing a guard or reserve job while on probation. Your kids gotta eat.

 

[GFunk20]

Good points there, however SWA isn't one of those dumpy airlines that cut pay, award ridiculous bonuses to execs, or furlough.

 

[Tanker Clown]

Good points there, however SWA isn't one of those dumpy airlines that cut pay, award ridiculous bonuses to execs, or furlough.

What I meant was what loyalty do you have to some other airline while you are waiting on SWA. It's not wrong to work at DAL, UAL, or whoever while waiting on SWA. You don't sell your soul to work for them. Do what you have to do to keep food on the table until SWA calls. Then you can decide if walking away right after getting off probation is worth it to go to SWA.

 

[Benhuntn]

Well written Albie. Now let me set the record straight. Like I said earlier in this post, I was in the pool for 2 yrs and 2 months. They never reinterviewed anyone in the pool. Second, When I was 4-5 months from a class date they called and asked if I was currently flying. I wasn't as I had retired from the AF durning my swim. I thought this was going to be a problem but nope they were just keeping track of who was flying so they could plan extra sims for those of us that weren't. How many companys would do that? Other than the begining middle and end your post was right on.

 

[AlbieF15]

Hope you are right Ben...again...no malice intented.

That said...can I bet you Whataburger with everthing that any poolies brought on in 2009 will have some kind of mini-interview before coming onboard?

 

[BlueandWhite]

The impression I get from some of you guys is that all the poolies are living in a fantasy world thinking that all will be fine as long as we don't give up hope (or as JKE would say, "keep drinking the Kool-aid").

I can't speak for everyone, but for myself, I knew from the the time I got my "phone call" back last spring that nothing was guaranteed, and that I needed to have a back-up plan in place should it not work out.

While it's not my first choice, I have a decent job now that I can continue for the time being. I continue to throw out resumes to other jobs that look promising, and am ready to switch to another job if the opportunity is right.

Until that time, I'm waiting in the pool. No guarantees for how long... SWA may be my first choice, but not my only choice.

 

[Falconjet]

Good points there, however SWA isn't one of those dumpy airlines that cut pay, award ridiculous bonuses to execs, or furlough.

Nor WERE they the kind of company to do this type of thing to prospective employees either. I have to say that I too am amazed that they would do this. Not that they owe the poolies anything, they don't.

I knew that going in when I was in the pool. I made an offer on a house in Orlando when I was "continued in the hiring process" and then came home from the house hunting trip to find that hiring had ceased and they didn't know when/if they would hire again. I pulled the offer on the house and hunkered down.

SW treated me great while I was in the pool, sending me luvlines and updates, and they knew that I had been hired by FedEx in the interim. I very much wanted to work for SW. I agonized over the decision to decline the class date, my family saying that if I moved to a SW city I would do so on my own didn't help. I really appreciated and respected everybody there that I interacted with.

Had they done something like this to me back then, however, the decision would have been very simple and easy. Its purely business, and evidently they think this is a good business decision for them, so if you have to make the choice you owe it to your family and yourself to do the same.

I know they don't want people to swim for 2+ years and I could tell by the way they treated my decision that there was no ill will on their part (at least that I could detect) when I declined. They seemed to understand that your life must move forward and there are going to be poolies "lost" to them after certain lengths of time.

They must feel that they are getting something in return for the potential loss of poolies, and that should tell even the most die hard poolie (I considered myself pretty smitten by the corndog coolaid) something about the company and your standing with them prior to actually getting hired.

I hate to beat a dead horse but the age change and its ramifications will haunt the junior guys and potential employees for years to come. Keep the back up plans active and don't be afraid to move on to greener/different pastures.

FJ

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

The impression I get from some of you guys is that all the poolies are living in a fantasy world thinking that all will be fine as long as we don't give up hope (or as JKE would say, "keep drinking the Kool-aid").

I can't speak for everyone, but for myself, I knew from the the time I got my "phone call" back last spring that nothing was guaranteed, and that I needed to have a back-up plan in place should it not work out.

While it's not my first choice, I have a decent job now that I can continue for the time being. I continue to throw out resumes to other jobs that look promising, and am ready to switch to another job if the opportunity is right.

Until that time, I'm waiting in the pool. No guarantees for how long... SWA may be my first choice, but not my only choice.

Smart of you, there are no guarantees in Life, I'm still in the UPS pool, since Spring of 05...It means nothing, luckily my Back up flying the "CornDawgs" worked out Actually met a Captain for SW last week who lives in SDF and was placed in the pool at Brown and was Never called (which will probably be my case and I'm not going if they do!)

Take anything you can get at this point, this merger thing could get ugly...then decide when they call.

And as mentioned before, returning guys are not going to want to start at the bottom, commuting to LAS or OAK two legs from DAL or the East Coast to sit reserve. PHX may have been easier but with the latest Vacancy, shifting a bunch of guys from PHX to LAS, commuting probably just got worse!

Hang in there,
KBB

 

[huronip]

From the company website this morning the old guys have until the 8th of February to apply.

Any of these guys contacted you for interview prep Albie?

 

[Benhuntn]

None taken Albie

 

[AlbieF15]

Any of these guys contacted you for interview prep Albie?

No. I've helped a few guys get prepped at other places that fit that demographic, but no SWA guys...

I don't think thing an over-60 guy at SWA needs an interview coach. What he needs is a good rep with the guys he's flown with the last 10/20 years. Can you imagine the sting of getting blackballed by your own crew force?

On a side note--a client I helped a few years back get successfully hired at SWA was an over 50 US Air guy. If there is any salve in this law change, its the idea that great guy like him will get some benefit. I try to focus on the guys I am pullling for when I think about age 60. There are a bunch of good former Eastern/Pan Am/US Air guys at my company (and a few at SWA) that could use a good break or two...

 

[Rtrell]

For what it is worth. I think the number that actually do come back will be less than 10 and not the 50/60 that I have seen posted on here. Not a sure thing but that is the number I have heard. Wish I had some better info for you guys.