SWA pilot turns down FedEx? Tell me more...

[GuppyWN]

Hey Vette,

I like your attitude. Wanna job at SWA? I can't really help you get a job but we always need guys? like you here.

Gup

 

[goastar]

sure you can

At least give him a letter of rec, he seems like a cool dude. Nice to see a sense of responsibility regardless of how one may or may not be treated.

Hey Vette,

I like your attitude. Wanna job at SWA? I can't really help you get a job but we always need guys? like you here.

Gup

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Awww... do the big-bad airline management folks get their feelings hurt? .

Its thier feelings, their policy and thier airline.

Tough. Interviewing is an opportunity to look at the inside of an operation. As pilots we show up salivating for the chance to fly for company "X" when what we SHOULD be doing is interviewing THEM...just as they interview us..

Sounds great if the supply and demand was opposite. But is isn't so I'm not sure this attitude is going to get one far in the SWA/FX interview process.

What do you think Albie?

Researching a company can only take you so far. Think of the interview as a first date. First impressions mean a lot. Sure, she is still the one who knows whether or not you're getting lucky -- but you can still decide if you even WANT to!.

Supply and demand. We all hate going to the Air Inc sausage fest. But that is the way the game is played.

In fact it is intresting to see SWA and FX there. They really aren't recruiting...rather just promoting the company in general.

I find it amusing that airline management wants to hire "lifers". The fact that they expect that kind of commitment is laughable when you consider that they will offer no such commitment to you. As soon as the economic environment turns they will kick you to the curb without a second thought. (sounding more like a woman all the time actually)..

We are talking about SWA and FX. What is their furlough history? They do hire lifers. Maybe that will change....maybe it won't.

In the mid 1980s a US Airways pilot was furloughed. He subsequently got hired by Southwest and, over the next decade, upgraded. In 1999 he was recalled by US Airways and returned. His reason? The retirement, at the time, was superior at USAir..

OK.... your point? What does this have to do with FedEx and SWA offering a career and having pride in their company, and being offended when someone is presumptuous?

Today he's furloughed (and I dont know where he is.) He made a business decision and he's living with it..

Lot's of guys have done this. Plenty have left SWA or FX. What does this have to do with FX getting thier feelings hurt?

I refuse to jump headfirst into some airline job simply because they have a flavor-of-the-month "name". Let's leave that kind of faulty decision making to the young-kids at the regionals..

SWA and FX are the flavor of the month? Maybe flavor of the plus quarter century.

Again supply and demand. While you refuse to jump headfirst there are plenty of qualified guys that will. Our wonderful free market. Got to love Capitalism. Right?

There are good companies out there. Both SWA and FedEx are examples. It stands to reason that there might be pilots at both who wonder what color the grass is on the other side. The best way to see would be to take part in an interview. There is no rule that you must say "yes" if the job is offered. .

You just said SWA and FX were flavors of the month!

And yet you missed the point. Again. No one is saying don't interview at multiple carriers. The point is don't be an arrogrant toolbox and screw it up for everyone else when an offer is declined! Be nice and polite. Dare I say graceful?

For FedEx management to take offense to such a practice simply proves they are oblivious to the evolution of the pilot-career. We have been burned by management before (furloughing us when times get bad, but expecting 100% loyalty indefinately). .

Nope. FedEx is a great company (SWA too) and they offer something that most carriers can't. Stability and Growth. These two companies still offer what everyone else used to offer. So as the pilot career has evolved into just a job, and the FedEx and SWA job is still a career.

I don't blame SWA or FX for having a sense of pride in thier companies and thier ability to offer the best employment out there. And taking offense when some takes what they have to offer for granted.

When talking to interviewers they comment on how refreshing it is to see positive, well motivated guys coming to interview. They too get tired of the negativity and cyncism.

One poster here (I forget who) has a signature line that says, "Run your life like a business". I think that is sage advice.

Wow... that's deep. Maybe if we were lawyers or doctors and could get a small business loan from a bank your cute quote would apply.

BG- your "Stick it to the Man" rant sure sounds good, but it just doesn't match up with reality. And I am surprised that Albie is giving out Bravo Zulu's.

But lets hit the point again for ensured clarity.

Your above attitude/mantra won't help someone get hired. In fact I believe an interviewer would react negatively if any part of this attitude was sensed. So why even entertain it?

But even so, it is too difficult to be polite and professional at all times? Often, HR depts have gotten a bad taste from a couple of pilots who have offened with some kind of commonality. Next thing we know, COEX guys have a bad rap at B6. (just an example!). Why be that guy that screws it up for all?


The point? We agree on the message, just not the delivery.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

SWA and FX are the flavor of the month? Maybe flavor of the plus quarter century.

Really? I'm asking the question because it doesn't seem like more than 10 years has gone by since SW, and cargo in general, were having to settle for second- or third-tier pilot candidates, while the Legacy carriers were enjoying first-pick.

In the late 70's, Flying Tigers, Continental, and Braniff were all "FOTW's." By 1988 or so, all were either in serious decline or out of business altogether, while other carriers assumed the mantle of FOTW. (That was about the time that my neighbor passed up a chance to go with FedEX for a shot at a "real" airline...US Air. Another chose TWA over an unknown little start-up called "IPEX"...the roots of UPS)

Of course, by the late 90's, the players had shifted once again. Cargo, (and in fact working for ANY airline that was consistently profitable, even if you'd never heard of it before) was starting to look pretty good. Then came 9/11, and the shot-to-the-pills that brought many of the former FOTW's to the mat. They may have cleaned up "ground zero," but the wreckage of our industry is still smoking.

Historically, the FOTW cycle seems to run about 10-12 years at most, and we're already more than halfway through this one. If I were a young pilot in the job market today, I'd be looking for a company whose star is still on the rise, not one that has either peaked, or likely will peak before my expected upgrade.

Maybe that's what this guy was thinking, too...

 

[Dave Benjamin]

This is a really dumb thread. The guy made a decision based on the information available and personal considerations. Unless you know the guy you have no clue. Have you ever stopped to think that perhaps there were other strong factors in the decision? Maybe his wife got offered a 6 figure job in the Bay Area, her parents are willing to watch the kids, and OAK is a junior base. In a case like that would the guy be smarter to go to FedEx?

FedEx is a good job but it's not for everyone. Nor is SWA. Trying to analyze this guy's decision is a waste of bandwidth.

 

[Purpled]

FedEx is a good job but it's not for everyone. Nor is SWA. Trying to analyze this guy's decision is a waste of bandwidth.

And that about sums it up.

 

[firstthird]

I suspect that the reason for the thread is that getting a FEDEX interview is not as simple as putting in an application. If it was then I would agree, not a big deal. But since you need a sponsor (or 3), do a meet & greet that is separate from the interview, get yourself to both the meet & greet and the interview and pay for a hotel room; it is a significant investment of time and effort for the interviewee and the people who sponsor him.

Thus, the hoi polloi find it interesting that someone would go to all that trouble and then turn it down due to an initial base assignment. Just seems strange. I agree that it is obviously an intensely personal/family decision; but that being said, asking people to walk your stuff in, get you a meet & greet, etc and then turn down an offer invites questions. Of course, the whole story could be vastly different but this wouldn't be an internet rumor board if everything was reported in the USA Today already, we wouldn't be coming here if it was.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Historically, the FOTW cycle seems to run about 10-12 years at most, and we're already more than halfway through this one. If I were a young pilot in the job market today, I'd be looking for a company whose star is still on the rise, not one that has either peaked, or likely will peak before my expected upgrade.

Maybe that's what this guy was thinking, too...

Are you guys reading?

FedEx and SWA aren't 10-12 year cycles!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

This is a really dumb thread. The guy made a decision based on the information available and personal considerations. Unless you know the guy you have no clue. Have you ever stopped to think that perhaps there were other strong factors in the decision? Maybe his wife got offered a 6 figure job in the Bay Area, her parents are willing to watch the kids, and OAK is a junior base. In a case like that would the guy be smarter to go to FedEx?

FedEx is a good job but it's not for everyone. Nor is SWA. Trying to analyze this guy's decision is a waste of bandwidth.

And that about sums it up.

Stay focused people!

It isn't the fact that he went career shopping.... it is the way he did it!

 

[Purpled]

Stay focused people!

It isn't the fact that he went career shopping.... it is the way he did it!

Yeah, I think we get that part. But you're the only one who seems to know the way he did it and one quote doesn't really capture the atmosphere. We'd all agree with the 'don't be a jerk' philosophy.

The real focus is that it is pointless to guess why(or how) he did what he did without his input. Everything else is just conjecture. Sure, I'm curious too, but I'd want to hear it from him or from someone that he's told.

Peace!

 

['72Gremlin]

I suspect that the reason for the thread is that getting a FEDEX interview is not as simple as putting in an application. If it was then I would agree, not a big deal. But since you need a sponsor (or 3), do a meet & greet that is separate from the interview, get yourself to both the meet & greet and the interview and pay for a hotel room; it is a significant investment of time and effort for the interviewee and the people who sponsor him.

Thus, the hoi polloi find it interesting that someone would go to all that trouble and then turn it down due to an initial base assignment. Just seems strange. I agree that it is obviously an intensely personal/family decision; but that being said, asking people to walk your stuff in, get you a meet & greet, etc and then turn down an offer invites questions. Of course, the whole story could be vastly different but this wouldn't be an internet rumor board if everything was reported in the USA Today already, we wouldn't be coming here if it was.

I would agree. I believe that's the reason why FedEx requires the meet and greet and for you to have a "sponsor" to get hired. They've been burned before. It's their way of placing a little personal/pilot accountability in the hiring process. This guy's sponsor laid it all out there for him. The sponsor may not have have the same credibility now. I'm sure this was an isolated incident.... and the decision was made with unique circumstances we'll never understand.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yeah, I think we get that part. But you're the only one who seems to know the way he did it and one quote doesn't really capture the atmosphere. We'd all agree with the 'don't be a jerk' philosophy.

The real focus is that it is pointless to guess why(or how) he did what he did without his input. Everything else is just conjecture. Sure, I'm curious too, but I'd want to hear it from him or from someone that he's told.

Peace!

I thought the posted email from JL was a good indicator?

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

Are you guys reading?

FedEx and SWA aren't 10-12 year cycles!

Are you saying that FedEx and SWA are more than 12-year cycles? If so, they haven't demonstrated it yet. I'm not saying that both haven't been getting well-qualified applicants for the last 10 years. What I'm saying is that quite a few of the people they got were hoping to get a call from one of the legacy carriers first.

Apparently, the problem is even receiving some attention from the hiring committee at FE, since they're subjecting furloughed legacy pilots to increased scrutiny as part of the hiring process. Ten years ago, United, American, and Delta never felt it necessary to ask their pilot-applicants if they would take a job at FedEx or SWA if one were offered.

One of the things that makes a company FOTW is growth, both in it's market, and of it's pilot group. Both FedEx and SWA have pretty much carved up all there is to carve up in their respective markets. Moreover, the FedEX (and to a lesser extent, the UPS) pilot groups have the spectre of ACMI carriers to deal with, while their corporate sponsors face new competition from DHL and a host of smaller forwarders. I don't know much about SWA, but it seems like they've derived at least some of their market advantage from their political connections. Such relationships are rarely etched in stone. Political connections can become political liabilities overnight, a situation which other carriers such as AA would no doubt exploit mercilessly.

Perhaps FedEX and SWA will eventually become "Quarter-century FOTW's," but if they do, they will be the first.

 

[Purpled]

I thought the posted email from JL was a good indicator?

It said that he declined because he was headed to ANC. It didn't say his reasoning, thought process or attitude. I also couldn't tell if he was in the pool over at SWA or on the property.

 

[canyonblue]

Perhaps FedEX and SWA will eventually become "Quarter-century FOTW's," but if they do, they will be the first.

Perhaps someday you will find a flying job and you will understand more about this industry.

 

[Jolly Roger]

Can we let this thread die? I guess not, I just bumped it again.

 

[vetteracer]

Hey Vette,

I like your attitude. Wanna job at SWA? I can't really help you get a job but we always need guys? like you here.

Gup

Hey, thanks, I would LUV to work there. Had my app in for over a year, have the type, nothing.

I am just waiting my turn. Lot's of quality guys out there.

Back to the point, sometimes we forget the meaning of a handshake and our word. If you accept a job, shake the CP's hand as he welcomes you, then you have a responsibility to them. To be honest and fair at a minimum.

Mark

 

[Hagar17]

Just wanted to live in MEM

I hate to start this painful thread back up, but I thought I might attempt to shed some light on this subject and hopefully help put an end to the discussion.

My sponsor is a FedEx management type that personally know this dude and his sponsor. He is a SWA guy that lives in MEM and has a spouse that is from there. He applied to FedEx on the hope that he would be hired and spend his days in his hometown. Who would have known he'd be offered the biggest jet they have based in ANC? I'm sure he knew the possibility of being based in ANC in the days leading up to his phone call and I'm sure he discussed this possibility with his spouse. Apparently, he liked working for SWA and having to commute more than working for FedEx and having to commute. It was his decision to make and he made it. His sponsor probably understands and supports him.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I wish the dude well. It took a lot of balls to turn down a job like that. No single QOL issue is more important that living where you want to live. Living in your hometown, possibly close to freinds and family and familiar surroundings, is priceless.

My question is: Why does anyone care? FedEx poolies ought to happy, that's one class slot closer to you. Current FedEx dudes, why would you want to fly with a guy that doesn't want to be there? SWA dudes, you ought to be proud the guy stayed.

Here's the bottom line. You have to look out for yourself and do what's best for you and your family. This is not working for Uncle Sam. Any airline can and will furlough you in the event the airline falls on hard times. I have a letter from AA that says I'll never be furloughed. What is that letter worth today? You have to be loyal to you and yours. Can I say some of you weren't loyal to the USA when you separated from the military? Of course not. You did what was right for you.

Good luck, SWA dude, we'll see how it all shakes down when we all turn 60 (or 65 ).

Cheers, Hag :beer:

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I wish the dude well. It took a lot of balls to turn down a job like that. No single QOL issue is more important that living where you want to live. Living in your hometown, possibly close to freinds and family and familiar surroundings, is priceless.

My question is: Why does anyone care? FedEx poolies ought to happy, that's one class slot closer to you. Current FedEx dudes, why would you want to fly with a guy that doesn't want to be there? SWA dudes, you ought to be proud the guy stayed.

My question is.....

Why not commute to ANC for a short period and get to MEM when he can? He is already commuting and I don't think SWA will have a MEM base.......for a very long time.... ANC while isn't instant gratification gets him to MEM quicker than LUV will.....

Your explanation of his reasoning seems short sighted.

We all keep refusing to look at this from KD/JL's prespective.....

There are plenty of guys that would love to come to FedEx with out the conditionals..... So why should KD/JL have to deal with it..... The fact is FX is the one of the hottest chicks on the block that many want to date... Until that changes.... They get to pick an choose...

Where is the responsibility to your fellow pilots? Why muck it up and create another hoop to jump thru for the guys trying to get on behind you...

I don't get it..... is this all about "me me me"?

 

[FN FAL]

He is a SWA guy that lives in MEM and has a spouse that is from there. He applied to FedEx on the hope that he would be hired and spend his days in his hometown.

Pinnacle would base him out of MEM.

 

[Uppercrust]

Pinnacle would base him out of MEM.

Quicker upgrade there too. Another touch choice. He probably didn't picked up there.:laugh: :laugh:

 

[AlbieF15]

Rez,

Bottom line is this guy doesn't owe another pilot anything. If a guy beats you out in quals, connections, or pure luck...its tough. However, that doesn't mean he should sandbag his choices to help anyone else. He busted his chops to get hired by both companies, and the choice is his to make.

And I seriously doubt KD or JL really give a rat's @ss what this guy does either. They'll put someone else into that slot in a heartbeat.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez,

Bottom line is this guy doesn't owe another pilot anything. If a guy beats you out in quals, connections, or pure luck...its tough. However, that doesn't mean he should sandbag his choices to help anyone else. He busted his chops to get hired by both companies, and the choice is his to make..

agreed... however that is not the point..... All companies have the right to hire who they want and create thier own criteria....

And applicants can use whatever criteria they want. Engine type. Commute. Yearly humidity averages in potential domiciles...whatever....

The point.... don't negatively influence hiring policy making it more difficult for the next guy.... (like the furloughed legacy guys...)

And I seriously doubt KD or JL really give a rat's @ss what this guy does either. They'll put someone else into that slot in a heartbeat.

Yet the June 06 email indicates otherwise....

 

[Sluggo_63]

Rez,

Bottom line is this guy doesn't owe another pilot anything.

Albie (I can't believe I'm disagreeing with you...)

He may not owe any other applicant/poolie anything, but I think he owes his sponsor the consideration to turn this off earlier in the process. How long had the rumor of new-hires being based in Anchorage been floating around before it became reality? He had to have known that it was a definite possibility. He should have discussed it with his sponsor and planned for it. To turn it down at the phone call stage was poor form, I think.

 

[satpak77]

how about

I knew a guy who owned Chevies his whole life, but this year bought a Ford.

Wanted to ask the board

1) Is this because Ford offers a better product this year?

2) Does driving a Ford make him happier?

3) Is GM/Chevy corporation headed downhill? Is this customer a sign of "times to come?"

etc etc blah blah blah

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Your explanation of his reasoning seems short sighted.

We all keep refusing to look at this from KD/JL's prespective.....

There are plenty of guys that would love to come to FedEx with out the conditionals..... So why should KD/JL have to deal with it..... The fact is FX is the one of the hottest chicks on the block that many want to date... Until that changes.... They get to pick an choose...

Where is the responsibility to your fellow pilots? Why muck it up and create another hoop to jump thru for the guys trying to get on behind you...

I don't get it..... is this all about "me me me"?

Hagar,

Thanks for the insight.


Rez,


This is not as clear cut as you make it out to be. The hiring department wants all the power but they simply don't have it. And they know it.

Part of the interview process is selling the company to the interviewee. The tiresome 'tradition' of having to go thru a complex hiring process is partly meant to make the interviewee feel special and chosen. Contrary to your assumption not every good pilot candidate gets to his or her dream job with the best timing. Then it becomes a choice to leave a good, maybe very good, job for a truly great job. Hiring knows this. Its a tough decision, I'm sure.

The company wants the applicant to walk away from the interview motivated to accept a position. Motivated enough to leave another job to go back on PROBATION and start again at the bottom. To be the last person on the seniority list and the most vulnerable to industry changes. To accept how many peers have been there for years and many new friends who are younger will be there years after he/she retires. A big risk even if the job is more stable in the long term. But short term matters too.



I probably am not telling you anything you don't already know.

But the above is really not my point. I think this hiring thing is all about 'Me'. Both hiring and applicant alike. The hiring department is pulling out all their tricks to get lifers. Applicants are primping and preening to be chosen.

I think there is an ethical way to treat employers yet still leave them after landing a "career" job. In all my interviews I have never been asked if I intended to make the job a long term career. No promise is ever asked of us. It is the burden of the company to encourage us to be lifers and our opportunity to make it a life long job if that is what we want.

This is America. Job mobility is not just the right of the upper middle class or the rich and powerful. To give that right up is not fair to all Americans, not just the other pilots who want to be at FedEx.

If this system of hiring breaks down enough, it may even change into something more coherent and relevant.

 

[AlbieF15]

I'm not defending HOW he went about turning down the slot. When I turned down Jetblue, I did about 3 weeks before my class, and I sent Dean Melonas an email expressing my regrets, explaining my decision, and requesting a chance to talk to him on the phone about my choice. He was courteous enough to call me and I had the chance to thank him for the opporunity over the phone, as well as share what a tough choice it had been.

However, when I made the call, I was NOT thinking "geez...if I don't go to class all my F-15 buddies from Tyndall are going to get screwed..." While I certainly like most of those guys, they didn't get a CFI at 20, teach CRM, or do a host of other things that I had done to make myself more marketable to the airlines. The choice between FedEx and Jetblue was MINE, and mine exclusively. If I heard another Eagle guy saying "well geez, Albie...now its harder for ME to get hired..." I would have reminded him he wasn't there when I was doing EVERYTHING I could to make myself marketable. Everybody loves you once you are on at a major--its the guys who were there before that who are your real friends.

In air to air combat, there is a winner and loser. There are no ties. Second place means you are dead. So, I am proud to be part of a great squadron. However, when we fight, we fight FULL UP to bring out the best in each other. I expect no quarter. By the same token, sandbagging my own career so another pilot (who honestly...probably doesn't really give a $hit about me deep down anyway...) might one day get a job at my carrier strikes me as assinine. However, bitterly sitting on the sidelines unable to get hired and complaining about someone who did but turned it down sounds like sour grapes.

As for sponsorship--there are two schools of thought. First is A) I won't sponsor you unless you REALLY mean it and want to work here. I don't want to waste a silver bullet if you REALLY don't want to be here. I've met a lot of SWA guys who subscribe to this method, as well as some guys at FedEx. The second is B) I want YOU to get whatever you want that makes you happy, and it that happens to be at my company--cool! I'll help you all I can. However, should you decide MY company isn't right for you...follow your own heart. I don't care--go make you and your family happy.

If you expect to have a rotary launcher of sponsorship silver bullets, obviously you don't want your sponsoree to burn you by turning down your company. Rez--I think this is where you are going. I have no problem with this line of thought--as long as you as the sponsor are perfectly clear about what you expect from your sponsoree.

For me--I've sponsored ONE guy at FedEx. I gave him the same spiel I outlined in B....I'll do all I can to get you hired at FedEx, but ultimately its up to you where you decide to go for your life. You are my friend regardless, and make your choice without ANY reservations about the impact on ability to sponsor anyone eles. In other words, this silver bullet is 100% yours... My sponsoree got hired by SWA and by FDX, and he went with FDX. I think his SWA sponsor was a bit disappointed and embarrassed, just like the FDX sponsor was in the example that started this thread.

Again--to summarize... Be classy. Be honest. But look out for your own family affairs...you don't owe anyone else anything but your best effort.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'm not defending HOW he went about turning down the slot. When I turned down Jetblue, I did about 3 weeks before my class, and I sent Dean Melonas an email expressing my regrets, explaining my decision, and requesting a chance to talk to him on the phone about my choice. He was courteous enough to call me and I had the chance to thank him for the opporunity over the phone, as well as share what a tough choice it had been.

Impressive.... honest and classy. And this is what I am advocating the LUV guy should've done. Am I missing something? Did he not hit a nerve with KD/JL?

However, when I made the call, I was NOT thinking "geez...if I don't go to class all my F-15 buddies from Tyndall are going to get screwed...".

Or course not... companies realize that not all offers will be accepted. But you turned down JB with respect to Dean M and his company. Big difference. The LUV guy did not. Why is it you can be honest and classy?

In air to air combat, there is a winner and loser. There are no ties. Second place means you are dead. So, I am proud to be part of a great squadron. However, when we fight, we fight FULL UP to bring out the best in each other. I expect no quarter. By the same token, sandbagging my own career so another pilot (who honestly...probably doesn't really give a $hit about me deep down anyway...) might one day get a job at my carrier strikes me as assinine. However, bitterly sitting on the sidelines unable to get hired and complaining about someone who did but turned it down sounds like sour grapes.

First of all this is not ACM and no one dies from competitive airline interviews.

Who is complaining about not getting hired? I'm certianly not. I just want the same interview process you and he got, without extra steps because some guy pissed off KD/JL. For example, the Legacy guys have to jump thru more hoops because of other legacy guys that pissed off FedEx.

No one is saying sandbag your own career. But it seems one can politley decline a job offer, look out for his family and not create a bad impression. Just like you did.

BTW..can you MIL guys relate to the rest of the world without a tactical "There I was" perspective?
:beer:

As for sponsorship--there are two schools of thought. First is A) I won't sponsor you unless you REALLY mean it and want to work here. I don't want to waste a silver bullet if you REALLY don't want to be here. I've met a lot of SWA guys who subscribe to this method, as well as some guys at FedEx. The second is B) I want YOU to get whatever you want that makes you happy, and it that happens to be at my company--cool! I'll help you all I can. However, should you decide MY company isn't right for you...follow your own heart. I don't care--go make you and your family happy.

B works, but is there a concern that the company will weaken ones creditibilty if one sponsers multiple guys that turn down employment offers?

If you expect to have a rotary launcher of sponsorship silver bullets, obviously you don't want your sponsoree to burn you by turning down your company. Rez--I think this is where you are going. I have no problem with this line of thought--as long as you as the sponsor are perfectly clear about what you expect from your sponsoree.

Nope... that is not where I am going. Where I am going is how you handled JB... a Win/Win/Win. Multiple job offers/family-self number one priority/didn't muck it up for the other guys.

I think his SWA sponsor was a bit disappointed and embarrassed, just like the FDX sponsor was in the example that started this thread.

Yup... and guys like you have the skill set to to do it all including not embarrassing your sponser and offending the HR Dept. And that is very cool and that is all I am advocating...

Again--to summarize... Be classy. Be honest. But look out for your own family affairs...you don't owe anyone else anything but your best effort.

Agreed...... just don't be a bull in a china shop...i.e. get what you want and leave the place a mess for the guys coming in.

If we all want the ability to get multiple job offers and pick and choose which one is best for our family then we need to be classy and honest. Look, these HR depts can take it to the next level and set it up so that they will only look at you if you aren't looking at other airlines.

One more question on the application.

Are you seeking employment elsewhere?

​

Many guys, like you Albie, have the abiltiy to get multiple offers and the reason why is becuase the guys before you (and you, yourself) didn't mess it up.

 

[AlbieF15]

BTW..can you MIL guys relate to the rest of the world without a tactical "There I was" perspective?
:beer:

Not usually. Even those of us with some civilian background eventually become assimilated into the fold and become social retards. There are many places we can no longer go in public







One more question on the application.

Are you seeking employment elsewhere?



You bet. I want to be an AIRLINE pilot. I want to be at (insert airline here) more than anywhere else. However, knowing how competitive the process really is, I have applied to many different places. I do have a family to support!




​

Many guys, like you Albie, have the abiltiy to get multiple offers and the reason why is becuase the guys before you (and you, yourself) didn't mess it up.[/quote]

I was blessed--no doubt! However, I busted my butt for years to keep my civilian tickets up, do some "outside the box" jobs like aerospace physiology and CRM instructor, and I chose assignments based on FLYING not on career progression in the AF. I work with plenty of sharp candidates from both military and regional airlines who end up with multiple offers. I know sometimes it looks like the "rich get richer...", but many times its a combo of luck, networking, and a lot of quals. I also know that having another interview/offer takes a LOT of pressure off each individual interview, so in my experience a guy with mutliple interviews often does better in EACH of them since all his or her eggs aren't in one basket.

Again--your points on being a gentleman are all valid. I think we are 75-90% in agreement. However, despite the JL email exerpt you've seen, I don't think one guy turning down FDX at the last moment is going to affect hiring one bit. There are plenty of former NWA, DAL, AA, and UAL guys here now, and the former guys returning to their previous carriers appears to be water under the bridge. For every RULE we see in an email or FCIF, somebody knows someone on the property who was an exception. Don't stress if you are at carrier X and some guy shows up at our company and turns into a jerk--I still think by in large you'll get looked at based on your own merits. You may have a few tough questions to answer in your meet and greet, but with a little thought you'll know the right answers.

 

[Uppercrust]

However, I busted my butt for years to keep my civilian tickets up, do some "outside the box" jobs like aerospace physiology and CRM instructor, and I chose assignments based on FLYING not on career progression in the AF.

Quitter!!!!:laugh: :laugh: