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since i actually know this guy who passed on the FEDEX offer (he was in my wedding), i thought i would clarify.....
his wife certainly was/is no factor...
money was/is not a factor...
he simply loves SWA, and couldn't go back to flying night freight....
not a choice I would have made, and it certainly didn't helped my chances of getting a sponsor, but it is what it is and everyone makes choices based on their own circumstances and experiences.
i wonder if anyone on this thread has ever actually FLOWN for SWA then left and went to FEDEX ....thats who's opinion i would like to hear.
his wife certainly was/is no factor...
money was/is not a factor...
he simply loves SWA, and couldn't go back to flying night freight....
not a choice I would have made, and it certainly didn't helped my chances of getting a sponsor, but it is what it is and everyone makes choices based on their own circumstances and experiences.
i wonder if anyone on this thread has ever actually FLOWN for SWA then left and went to FEDEX ....thats who's opinion i would like to hear.
C
CaptainMark
My buds at SWA luv it....i started the thread to jab my friend SWA/FO...that's all..it was then hijacked...it wasn't about your friend at all..it was about the jab at SWA/FO and he humorously responded quite well...then someone posted they would rather be unemployed than work at FDX...that sounded idiotic to me..but whatever....and i agree..it would be nice to hear from someone who has done both...different jobs ..different lifestyles....and good luck with the sponsor thing.....and hey purpleinmem...what's up with the bobby brady hall monitor thing...we have moderators...but thanks for your public service announcements...i thought we were all on the same team...and this stuff is funny sometimes...got it...hey is flightinfo a private forum now..since we have to pay....can i say "booby"?
canyonblue
Everyone loves Southwest
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TheBaron
Cruisin' down L888
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Stifler's Mom
MILF...MILF...MILF
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propjob27
I have people skills!
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TheBaron said:
That's exactly what I was thinking. Yeah, I'll start the FedEX application process, which takes a minimum of a year (total), find a good friend to sponsor me, find 2 to 4 other recs, take my FE written, jumpseat to MEM, ANC, LAX or SFS on my day off to do a meet n greet, etc... and I hate freight and love Southwest?
Yup, that sounds totally reasonable. Whata smart guy.
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Falconjet
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runfast said:
Well: I can come close. My primary sponsor at FedEx worked at SW for a couple months after IOE and then left for FedEx. That wasn't his plan, it is just the way it worked out. He took the job at SW and later got the offer from FedEx.
When asked he said (and reminds me often, since I was in the pool at SW over 2 years and turned down a class date since I had been here a year and a half) that he could work less and make more money at FedEx. Those were his words almost verbatim.
That is simply one perspective and I can respect that. There is much more to life than money, but it IS a JOB and the primary goal should be to provide for the family and have as much time with them as you can.
Living in Memphis and standing reserve (when staffing is sufficient) is an outstanding way to spend a lot of time with your family and make decent money at FedEx. Its not for everybody, but it can be a fairly good JOB.
Not the tremendous job that management wants us to believe everybody would kill their mother to have, just a pretty good job with decent benefits. Nothing more, nothing less.
I personally think it is short sighted to dismiss the FedEx OPTION, but I can certainly understand why some would prefer domestic day flying over SOME of the flying we do at FedEx.
I also have no problem with somebody taking the time to apply, getting the interview and eventual job offer turning it down either. That is the purpose of an interview after all, for both parties to determine if they are a good fit. That slot is still available for somebody who really wants it, and that individual and his family will be much happier (hopefully) in the long run.
I can think of several reasons why I wanted to go to SW instead of FedEx, the timing just worked out the other way for me. I wouldn't begrudge anybody having a choice to make and making the best one for them and their family. After all, its just business and the company would have had no problem telling you no thanks after a year or more in the pool if there was a downturn in the industry.
Live and let live.
FJ
thanks for the post falconjet...
it seems like timing was a huge part of the equation in his decision. he had been applying to fedex for a long time ( 3 + years). while waiting, he went to another major, got furloughed, got hired @ SWA, THEN fedex called him. he didn't start the application process after he had already been at SWA, it had been "on file" forever.
as i said, i don't agree with his decision, but you can't blame the guy for
applying to every airline he might want to be at, then having the luxury of making a decision that we would all loved to be faced with. as falconjet said, an interview is a two street, and if one of the parties don't like the fit, they are free to do as they choose.
in the meantime, i'm off to find another sponsor......
it seems like timing was a huge part of the equation in his decision. he had been applying to fedex for a long time ( 3 + years). while waiting, he went to another major, got furloughed, got hired @ SWA, THEN fedex called him. he didn't start the application process after he had already been at SWA, it had been "on file" forever.
as i said, i don't agree with his decision, but you can't blame the guy for
applying to every airline he might want to be at, then having the luxury of making a decision that we would all loved to be faced with. as falconjet said, an interview is a two street, and if one of the parties don't like the fit, they are free to do as they choose.
in the meantime, i'm off to find another sponsor......
Falconjet said:
Concur with all. Here is a scenario that some of you may wish to comment on. A buddy of mine is in the FedEx pool. It took him nearly a year and a half to get there. A week after he received his pool letter, Airline X called him for an interview. That airline has a domicile in his hometown. He was subsequently hired at Airline X as well and has a class date in the near future. He told me his FedEx pool letter explicitly said, "don't call us, we'll call you" (in regard to a class date), and that the letter was "not an offer of employment, just a notification that the process of background checks, etc. would continue" (i.e. He's not hired until sitting in class on day one). He asked me for advice. Should he call FedEx to determine if all is well? He isn't the kind of guy who would commit at Airline X and leave as soon as FedEx calls, but he also is struggling with the decision to pass on such a huge opportunity. Any thoughts?
Balut (nasty screen name BTW)
I agree that the FedEx "Put on your floaties" letter is NOT an offer of employment, however, IMHO it's about as close as one can get to one in this industry. That being said, I would recommend to your bud to do what the letter said, DON'T CALL. Move on, go to training at Airline X. The REALLY tough call will be when KD or BH calls for a class date. That's one of those times you gotta go see Moses on the mountain, etc. Regardless, starting training gives a glimpse at Airline X's flavor, as well as keeps bread on the table..
Now, to re-hijack this thread (and I mean this light-heartedly, flamers) a SWA buddy O' mine once recounted his story of flying, "The Spider" - EIGHT LEGS - IN ONE DAY! I think I would rather wake up at 2 AM, block 1.5, then sleep all day in a hotel than take off and land EIGHT TIMES in one day.
I tell my SWA buds boxes don't b!tch, to which they respond that they don't smile either, so I've learned that it truly is personal preference in this business. So I can't fault a guy for turnin' down Fred for Herb...
I agree that the FedEx "Put on your floaties" letter is NOT an offer of employment, however, IMHO it's about as close as one can get to one in this industry. That being said, I would recommend to your bud to do what the letter said, DON'T CALL. Move on, go to training at Airline X. The REALLY tough call will be when KD or BH calls for a class date. That's one of those times you gotta go see Moses on the mountain, etc. Regardless, starting training gives a glimpse at Airline X's flavor, as well as keeps bread on the table..
Now, to re-hijack this thread (and I mean this light-heartedly, flamers) a SWA buddy O' mine once recounted his story of flying, "The Spider" - EIGHT LEGS - IN ONE DAY! I think I would rather wake up at 2 AM, block 1.5, then sleep all day in a hotel than take off and land EIGHT TIMES in one day.
I tell my SWA buds boxes don't b!tch, to which they respond that they don't smile either, so I've learned that it truly is personal preference in this business. So I can't fault a guy for turnin' down Fred for Herb...
Man, on the first page of this thread I was delighted. It appeared as if Mark was off the sugar and SWA/FO was back on his medication...then it just want haywire, like all flightinfo threads that are more than 2 pages.
Anyway, you can't really blame a guy for making a choice of one airline over another; and like Mark said earlier, it's a nice choice to have. What's important for the FedEx guys here, and this is mostly directed at the sponsors, is that if your candidate turns down the job then you'll not likely be invited back to sponsor anyone in the near future.
Like it or not, they prefer not to waste time and money on folks who do not want to come here. Not that they resent folks who prefer another airline, they just want them to be upfront and candid through the process. The sponsor program is part of the process to be sure that the candidate is well qualified, personable and highly motivated. Then we(they) hire about 85 percent of those that make it to interview day (daily mileage may vary.)
Bottom line, if you go through the process, then don't take the job you aren't just burning the bridge for you, you are screwing other folks who could have been and would have been sponsored by your sponsor...and that's not so cool.
Anyway, you can't really blame a guy for making a choice of one airline over another; and like Mark said earlier, it's a nice choice to have. What's important for the FedEx guys here, and this is mostly directed at the sponsors, is that if your candidate turns down the job then you'll not likely be invited back to sponsor anyone in the near future.
Like it or not, they prefer not to waste time and money on folks who do not want to come here. Not that they resent folks who prefer another airline, they just want them to be upfront and candid through the process. The sponsor program is part of the process to be sure that the candidate is well qualified, personable and highly motivated. Then we(they) hire about 85 percent of those that make it to interview day (daily mileage may vary.)
Bottom line, if you go through the process, then don't take the job you aren't just burning the bridge for you, you are screwing other folks who could have been and would have been sponsored by your sponsor...and that's not so cool.
PurpleInMEM
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Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
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The issue is this: The legacy guys made it difficult for thier fellow pilots to get on a FDX becuase they would take the furlough recall back to thier legacy carrier. FedEx thought they hired lifers....
Now if you are a Legacy guy you have to jump theu more hoops to get hired...
Now, if you work for SWA (maybe JB and Airtran) and want to come to FDX, this guy has skewed JL/KD's perspective..... More hoops?
There are plenty of guys that are ready to come to FedEx without conditionals or tough decisions....
Not saying it is right or wrong, just...it is what it is....
Now if you are a Legacy guy you have to jump theu more hoops to get hired...
Now, if you work for SWA (maybe JB and Airtran) and want to come to FDX, this guy has skewed JL/KD's perspective..... More hoops?
There are plenty of guys that are ready to come to FedEx without conditionals or tough decisions....
Not saying it is right or wrong, just...it is what it is....
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Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
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runfast said:
Then why interview and make your sponser look foolish and ruin it for others at SWA who want to go to FDX? I don't get it?
It seems that JL feels slighted. In which case the SWA guy might have been a bit more diplomatic.... He could've explained that while he was waiting for FEDEX he made progress at SWA and SWA is simply the better choice for his family. etc... Then praise FedEx and wish them well.............
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av8trix
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Balut said:
I don't know why he couldn't ask one of his 3+ sponsors to go in to HR and ask for him...probably better than him calling them if he was told not too. I'm surprised his sponsors aren't offering to do that. Otherwise, go where the work is. He may find he loves his job at Airline X, especially if he's living in domicile already. That's a huge benefit. What I did was push off a class date at Airline C until I couldn't stand it anymore....luckily, UPS called in the meantime and I was able to turn down Airline C before class started. But I stressed about the same thing. Didn't want to piss off Airline C by leaving. Someone said this to me that put it all in perspective. "You have to do what is best for you. The airline isn't going to think twice when they furlough you because it is what is best for them." If he starts at Airline X and FedEx calls and it's a better opportunity, then he's got to make the choice that is best for him. It's a good problem to have though.
av8trix said:
Exactly! Just had a M&G at which the ACP encouraged my sponsoree to take a job at Eagle or JB if he was offered one. It would absolutely NOT hurt his chances at FDX. On the contrary, he said, it would show that he was serious about an aviation career. If/when FDX called, his status at either of those airlines would NOT hurt him. However, he DID say this policy does not apply to legacy carriers. You need an "executive referral" in his words to get hired while flying the line at a legacy.
Like aviatrix said, any airline won't show you loyalty if they need to furlough. This is business. You should do everything you can to get hired at as many places as you think you might like to work. If and when offers come in, then you decide.
And, as far as I know, someone turning down FDX has not adversely affected anyone's ability to sponsor someone in the future. Does anyone have any evidence to the contrary besides rumor?
Falconjet
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Your buddy is almost hired. Nothing will stand in the way except for him/her having an accident/incident or DWI while he is in the pool, or a huge downturn in the industry and subsequent halt in hiring.Balut said:
Otherwise, it is just a matter of time, but that time could be a month, could be a couple of years. More than likely it will only be a few more months, but then they will be "in" at FedEx.
In my opinion if they are Absolutely, Positively sure that they want to go to FedEx I would try to defer the class date with the other carrier as long as possible, hopefully getting the FedEx class before having to attend training or turn down the other offer.
I would only do that once or twice, and only if I was POSITIVE I wanted to work for FedEx. If it took more than a few months, I would go ahead and start with carrier X and then make the decision to stay or go when FedEx called.
If I had the slightest doubt about FedEx or wasn't fully committed, I'd take the first available class at the other carrier and then decide to stay or go when FedEx called. Sitting around waiting (if you have other options) probably isn't the best move for your family.
I would NOT call KD to ask about my status. No how no way. It will happen, the timing is the only issue. I wouldn't jepordize my spot trying to get information that she probably doesn't have anyway.
Good luck to your bud.
FJ
C
CaptainMark
PurpleInMEM said:Ahhhh....ok.....
Once again I really have no idea what you're pontificating about, but if you want to imagine me as Bobby Brady then you go girl.
And believe me...we're not on the same team newbie.
Oh and if I forget next month, happy one year flightinfo anniversary!
my apologies...it was purpletail...not you..my mistake..i never said i was smart..
pipe
fuggedaboutit
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Balut said:
Your buddy isn't the kind of guy to start at Airline X and leave as soon as FedEx calls?!?!?!?
I'm just throwin' this out there, but Airline X, ANY AIRLINE X, would furlough your buddy in a second. My good friends at AMR taught me that lesson well. No amount of your buddy's loyalty will change modern business reality. Tell him that he should take the Airline X job. If FX calls and he wants that job, he should take it.
Any Chief Pilot that's worth a damn will understand if he leaves. Companies in this business no longer offer loyalty to their employees and loyalty must be a two-way street.
Remember - take the bird in hand, but never, ever stop digging through the bush!
PIPE
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