swa new jet?

[stangdog]

maybe...
Airline may add new jet
Southwest is taking a 'close look' at the Embraer 190, CEO says

Dallas Morning News 11/13/03
author: Eric Torbenson
COPYRIGHT 2003 The Dallas Morning News, L.P.




Southwest Airlines Co.'s chief executive said Wednesday that he would take a "close look" at adding Embraer 190 aircraft to the fleet, a move that would give the carrier a second plane type for the first time in its 33-year history.

The 190 design "represents new technology" that could make operating the plane feasible for Southwest, said CEO Jim Parker in answering questions at an analyst conference in New York. But he added that a decision would be a long way off.

Southwest had previously considered flying 50-seat and 70-seat regional jets but found the costs unworkable.

And Mr. Parker added that it would be difficult to "walk away from having the advantages of operating a single type of aircraft." Mr. Parker wasn't at the conference himself, but answered questions through a phone link.

"We're very happy operating a single airplane type," he said.

Along with considering new planes, the Dallas-based low-fare carrier is currently thinking about several ways of changing how it flies, including the possibility of adding some sort of in-flight entertainment or possibly Internet access for some travelers.

Southwest had said in October that it was looking at different planes. But its executives hadn't confirmed that the Embraer 190 model was the likely candidate. The Brazilian plane maker hasn't even produced the new jet, which can be configured to carry about 100 passengers.

Small planes have higher costs when measured per seat, and Southwest has made money for 30 years by carefully controlling its costs. But a smaller plane type would open up more cities for Southwest service.

Rival JetBlue Airways Inc. has ordered 100 of the Embraer 190s, with options for 100 more, to complement its fleet of Airbus A320s.

Fort Worth-based American Airlines Inc. will eventually need a replacement in the 100-seat jet category as it retires the last of its Fokker F100 planes next year. Chief executive Gerard Arpey has said his carrier won't fly a 100-seat plane unless it can find a way to do it at similar costs to low-fare competitors such as JetBlue.

Shares of Southwest rose 41 cents to close at $18.82 in Wednesday trading.

At the same New York conference on Wednesday, Delta Air Lines Inc. said that its projected fourth-quarter loss would be higher than previously stated.

Michele Burns , chief financial officer for the Atlanta-based airline, said higher pilot pension costs would increase the range of the loss to between $365 million and $415 million from its earlier guidance of a loss of between $225 million and $275 million.

The difference comes from a $140 million noncash charge against earnings that Delta needs to take for its pilots, who are retiring in greater numbers than before. About 630 pilots have retired from Delta - normally about a third of that number retire on an annual basis - and many have taken lump-sum payouts on their retirement packages, and that's created more expense.

Delta has asked its pilots to take pay cuts, which may be the reason behind a lot of the early retirements. Pilots' pensions are set in part on how much they were earning right before retirement. Delta's pilots are the best-paid in the world, earning at least 40 percent more than their counterparts at American.

Delta operates a hub at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport and employs about 4,000 in North Texas to support that operation. Shares of Delta rose 14 cents to close at $12.56.

 

[SpeedBird]

"...a move that would give the carrier a second plane type for the first time in its 33-year history."


Southwest's First 2nd Type

 

[enigma]

"...a move that would give the carrier a second plane type for the first time in its 33-year history."


Southwest's First 2nd Type

The page wouldn't load, I'll bet that it was a three holer. The Austin Mueller barbershop used to have a picture of one of SWA's 727's hanging on the wall.

regards,
enigma

 

[SpeedBird]

Engima:

I'm sorry it doesn't load for you. Yes, it's a 727 taxiing out to takeoff from LAX circa 1983 courtesy of airliners.net.

 

[G4G5]

Lets hope they don't. Purchasing an ERJ-190 type will cost quite a few more dollars then a 737 type

 

[texanpilot]

Does Higher Power have a 190 sim?
Road trip to Brazil? I hear California is nice this time of year!

 

[zymotic]

Did SWA actually have 727's or is that one of those websites that doctors up airplanes with different paint jobs?

 

[SpeedBird]

It's the real thing. I'm old enough to remember seeing them fly around.....scary thing it doesn't seem that long ago.

 

[Joe Peeoznotz]

where's lowecur???

Close look?????????????

How far away will he stand? This is a conspiracy by lowecur to undermine the longstanding tradition of a great airline. Poor Mr. Parker doesn't know what he is saying. He has been duped by lowecur.

AAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWKKKKKKKKKK!!!

Look for the order..........Look for the order

AAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!

Can this be happening? Where are my crackers with the red, blue, and gold prozac dip?

 

[lowecur]

casual look to close look

My, my how did I miss this thread?

As the drum beats louder for SWA pilots, the parrots must be choking on their crackers. I see also there is a rumor that the 737 type will not be necessary for an application.

A decision would be a long way off. Like maybe by June, Jim? Just what is you're definition of a long way off?

Heh, heh......."look for the order."

 

[Swerpipe]

Difference between listening and reading

I heard James Parker on the internet as he answered the 190 question. Interestingly enough when you listen to it as opposed to read it with some editorial hand behind it, the tone is a lot different.
Mr. Parker really stressed the ¨Southwest reluctance¨ to go to a two type fleet. He also stated that their study and decision was a ¨long way off¨.
A huge difference in this trade between Jet Blue and Southwest is that Jet Blue goes from 165 seats to 100 while Southwest goes from 137 to 100. While Jet Blue found that 1 cent in higher CASM was acceptable, Southwest may not. Before you go too far, has Southwest connected all the dots and got stablished in all the markets where the 737 works yet? I don´t think so...

Look for the order... Look for the order.... Ha Ha ha

 

[lowecur]

swerpipe

Nope, didn't listen to interview. He can be as reluctant as he wants, but that doesn't make him stupid. This deal has a very good chance of going down, and alot sooner than most people think.

The difference in the seats between the 320 & 190 compliment each other perfectly for the planned route structure. That's why I think the majority of the order for WN will be for the 86 seat 175. Now check out the difference between 137 and 86. It's pretty close to the 156 & 100 B6 comparison. This is the perfect a/c for WN to dominate with out of PHIL. It can accomodate the small market(low frequency) or the medium market(high frequency). As I said on a previous thread, WN covets the 40 gate regional terminal in PHIL now controlled by UAIR, not the 8 gates they will have in a few years at terminal E. If UAIR goes 7, watch how quickly WN asks the airport authority for all the gates in E. Next time your in PHIL, check out the convenience of terminal E to F (right next door).

Forget the CASM difference. The 733 probably has a 1 cent higher CASM than the 190. It's all about BELF for profit. These smaller cities will generate a higher RASM, therefore generating a greater "profit gap" between CASM/RASM.

Look Swerpipe, you secretly hope I'm right, because that means more jobs at WN. Stop pretending like this wouldn't be good for you. And yes, it would be great for WN.

Look for the order.

 

[flyingitalian]

Look Swerpipe, you secretly hope I'm right, because that means more jobs at WN. Stop pretending like this wouldn't be good for you. And yes, it would be great for WN.

Wrong again. While I dont think it (WN buying anything other than a larger 737) will happen unless they give us the jets (ie. low price), it means more LOWER paying jobs since the company will most certainly not want to pay as much to pilot these aircraft, and neither will JB. As a matter of fact its already been stated that JB management wants to pay less and since there is no union they certainly will pay less for these jobs. So imagine all new hires go to the erj at a lower rate and fo jobs stagnate and the really high paying 737 jobs do not grow. So overall lower income for the pilots. Look, people drive to WN for low fares and simplicity. WN structure is not feed and dispurse its point to point. The ERJ-EMB 190 175 or whatever does NOT fit.

Maybe Ill be eating my hat one day, but I dont wear it anyway.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Lowecur,

What is the cost difference, per flight, of operating an 86 seat EMB vs. 100 seat EMB?

In other words is filling 60 of 86 seats a huge difference from filling 60 of 100 seats? (70% vs. 60% load factor)

Would the flexibility of offering more seats in hot markets make up the difference?

SWA always seems to make money with lower than normal loads.

 

[lowecur]

flyingitalian

Just curious, what kind of a discount under the 737 do you think Gary & Co would be willing to offer? I mean if an FO had the option to be a Captain on a 175 immediately or waiting a few more years for a 737 opening, he'd take the 737 option? If that's the case, I'm sure management would be glad to offer the job to new hires. Afterall, when B6 got started, many guys were hired as captain without having to "earn" their way up the ladder through the company.

I'm beginning to see this for what it really is. It's not about what's good for the company as a whole, it's about what's good for SWAPA. You guys are beginning to sound more and more like many of the other pilot groups out there - "Protect your gains at all costs." We must stand tall and not let the "evil" management team return us to the days of yesteryear.

One thing I've always admired about WN is the ability of all employee groups to work together for the good of the company. You guys have without a doubt the most equitable management team in the industry. Through their smarts and everyone's sacrafices for the last four decades, you've built this thing into an 800lb gorilla. Yet I'm beginning to see cracks appear. The slight tone of adversarial relationships is beginning to creep into the conversations that I read.

With size comes power, and with power comes contempt. Appreciate what a great management team you have, and trust them to make the right decisions.......they always have.

 

[lowecur]

flyboeingjets

Using a 500 mile trip, Embraer estimates the difference in trip costs between the 175 and 190 is about 21%. The seat cost difference is about 1%, meaning the CASM's are very close.

If both a/c have a CASM of close to 7.5 cents, this makes the 175 a much more economical a/c to fly on thinner routes. Let's use a RASM between Charleston, SC and PHIL of 14 cents with UAIR. If WN undercuts the RASM to 12.5 cents, they would have a BELF of 60%. That's 51 passengers to break even on the 175, and 60 on the 190. Doesn't seem like much, but believe me it adds up to tons of profits over the long haul. The 175 gives you the option of serving a smaller market than the 190, and still make a nice profit.

This is why I believe WN will make the majority of the order the 175. It gives them greater flexibility to go to more markets than B6. I also believe WN will order the 190 to take the place of the 25 or so 735's that are remaining.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

Its not the idea of SWA getting smaller jets that is bothering everyone as much as it is the constant flapping of your man pleaser.

 

[StopNTSing]

"We're very happy operating a single airplane type," he said.

I believe that pretty much sums it up.

 

[lowecur]

Hose A. Canusee????

By the dawns early light.

Joe, get a grip.

 

[bobbysamd]

New SW Type?

Very interesting, considering the industry example SW sets (and such a big deal made ) by operating only one type aircraft.

What I found even more interesting was that it operated B727s twenty years ago. Were B727 types and/or FEX certificates a hiring requirement ?

I liked the comment about Higher Power, etc. offering EMB types.