SWA is in position to dominate ATL

[PuffDriver]

One must understand the city of ATL to understand that they can, will and have been bought......basically defines their M.O. The fill dirt of the new runway was built on back door shady deals. A literal mountain of kick backs and bribes. The airport is basically the only thing keeping the city from financial ruin, due to years of inep management and corruption.

I wouldn't be surprised if the city drew "SWA" on their foreheads while building a new terminal for them ( for the right price) SWA is great at giving the perception of value to consumers and politicians. Can't blame them for that.

Building a terminal is one thing. The flow of traffic in ATL is another thing. They'll see.

 

[hairball1173]

Yesterday is a great example. Ramp control has a hard time working with Ground Control and it aint major Tom either. Ramp control needs some serious work and they are not ATC they are city paid. Sat on Lima for 15 min because Ramp wouldn't answer us nor ground and we had gate D1A. This was after our 18min turn in JAX to make up for the outbound delay.

 

[labatt]

Yesterday is a great example. Ramp control has a hard time working with Ground Control and it aint major Tom either. Ramp control needs some serious work and they are not ATC they are city paid. Sat on Lima for 15 min because Ramp wouldn't answer us nor ground and we had gate D1A. This was after our 18min turn in JAX to make up for the outbound delay.

If ramp traffic wasn't a factor, just taxi in.

 

[Lear70]

If ramp traffic wasn't a factor, just taxi in.

You gotta wonder about that... if the ramp controllers aren't FAA, can you get violated for just sauntering on in?

 

[texman]

You gotta wonder about that... if the ramp controllers aren't FAA, can you get violated for just sauntering on in?

I would have felt being left out in a uncontrolled (no contact) environment, I was putting the safety of my crew and pax in jeopardy. So old cappy here is going to creep in and get out of the way.LOL!

 

[hairball1173]

I feel uncontrolled everyday

 

[Ty Webb]

I would have felt being left out in a uncontrolled (no contact) environment, I was putting the safety of my crew and pax in jeopardy. So old cappy here is going to creep in and get out of the way.LOL!

I've done it on occasion. If they catch ya, it usually results in being instructed to make a punitive and lengthy "perp walk" around the entire ramp (north and south), with vindictive pauses gleefully inflicted at the various empty roadways. If you're lucky, a shift change occurs in the middle and you get to appeal your sentence to the new controller.

 

[scoreboardII]

Until the controller has to answer an ASAP on why he was dicking around.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

As I thought, you have no idea how ATC works. No pretending needed.

Wow, great comeback. I bet you have a 3 inch pecker too.

 

[Lear70]

Wow, great comeback. I bet you have a 3 inch pecker too.

LOL - you've gotten decidedly more ornery since you got to Delta.

Don't let it turn you into one of those crusty old Deltoids... life's too fun to take so seriously. No one gets out alive, anyway.

 

[PuffDriver]

Wow, great comeback. I bet you have a 3 inch pecker too.

My post was to the point. You have no idea how ATC in Atlanta works. Get over it and move on. Truth be told, it was you who didn't have the comeback, so you had to go for the phallus. Interesting.

It's 4 BTW, just to complete the fantasy for you.

 

[jester757]

ATC really knows that SW is mission oriented, get the job done. Most legacies are interested in slowing it down and padding the paycheck. Two completely different ways of operating.. and they understand that.

I rode on DL not too long ago and there was a slight delay at the gate for a mechanical. 15-20 minutes. No big deal right? Once taxing out, the CA was moving at 1mph for 25+ minutes to get to the runway....AFTER the delay at the gate. (and no, there was no traffic or flow time) His goal was to maximize his paycheck and could careless about the people behind him. Just one example of the stuff that happens everday.

I am working on an ATL Airspace project and SWA is in on it. They are telling the A80 folks the max speeds they are willing to fly and believe it or not, it is SLOWER than what the rest of us are currently flying. I can't see why - its not like there is gas station at the end of the runway...

Also, it seems SWA isn't that hot on LNAV off of the ground - which is pretty much standard here in ATL. Enjoy that vector I guess.

ATL is a uniquie creature - I don't care who you are or how big you are. The TRACON knows how to run traffic like no other and you will be onboard with them or at the back of the pack regardless of how many pizzas you buy.

 

[Lear70]

I am working on an ATL Airspace project and SWA is in on it. They are telling the A80 folks the max speeds they are willing to fly and believe it or not, it is SLOWER than what the rest of us are currently flying. I can't see why - its not like there is gas station at the end of the runway...

Nice attempt at humor...

It might have something to do with making the descent off the downwind. If you're doing 290 kts at 12,000 feet then, midfield downwind abeam the runway, told to descend to 6,000 feet, expect short approach, if you can't use flaps and speedbrakes together, you're screwed.

We've tried it some just to start getting used to configuring the 737 how they configure. You have two choices: use spoilers, slow to gear speed, drop the gear, and fly gear down spoilers out at 230 kts or slow all the way down to 200, gear down, stow the spoilers, go to flaps 10. If they don't want you to slow to 210, you can't do that one (SWA doesn't deploy flaps at speeds up to 250 kts like we do, at least not that I've noticed jumpseating). They seem to want it under 230 before you bring out any flaps.

Other than that, it's not coming down very quickly. If you're already slowed to 250, it's one thing to make that kind of descent. If you're not,,,

Also, it seems SWA isn't that hot on LNAV off of the ground - which is pretty much standard here in ATL. Enjoy that vector I guess.

I don't know if some of their older 300's and 500's are capable of LNAV off the ground.

ATL is a uniquie creature - I don't care who you are or how big you are. The TRACON knows how to run traffic like no other and you will be onboard with them or at the back of the pack regardless of how many pizzas you buy.

What about plasma TV's?

 

[labatt]

I am working on an ATL Airspace project and SWA is in on it. They are telling the A80 folks the max speeds they are willing to fly and believe it or not, it is SLOWER than what the rest of us are currently flying. I can't see why - its not like there is gas station at the end of the runway...

Also, it seems SWA isn't that hot on LNAV off of the ground - which is pretty much standard here in ATL. Enjoy that vector I guess.

ATL is a uniquie creature - I don't care who you are or how big you are. The TRACON knows how to run traffic like no other and you will be onboard with them or at the back of the pack regardless of how many pizzas you buy.

Uniquely easy. SWA has the biggest group of GET-R-DUN pilots and other employees I have ever seen. It will take them about 15 seconds to understand the ATL operation. While Delta is getting a ride report, wind check, slowing to 180 20 miles out and asking "how long's the final?" SWA will be at the gate watching the American boy's miss the 2nd high speed.

No offense to the DAL or AMR crews, but they just don't operate on the same level.

Ask your controller buddies at any airport with a fairly large SWA presence who their favorite and least favorite flight crews are to work. I'd be willing to wager a large amount you won't get any SWA responses on the negative side.

Cheap shot on the gas station remark. Have you ever looked at their safety per departure numbers?

 

[Ty Webb]

Uniquely easy. SWA has the biggest group of GET-R-DUN pilots and other employees I have ever seen. It will take them about 15 seconds to understand the ATL operation. While Delta is getting a ride report, wind check, slowing to 180 20 miles out and asking "how long's the final?" SWA will be at the gate watching the American boy's miss the 2nd high speed.

No offense to the DAL or AMR crews, but they just don't operate on the same level.

Get down off your soapbox before you fall and hurt yourself, junior.

Hee-Haw! Hee-HAW! :laugh:

 

[ATLplt]

Seems complicated Lear. Why not just fly a real airplane and throw the slats and boards out at 280kts? Maybe add flaps 18 in for fun at 240kts and watch the vsi peg out. ;-p

I keed...certainly jealous of the 737 destinations, but I'm not a fan of how delicate the wing is. Long live the Douglas tank!

 

[Lear70]

The 717 was fun to fly (the automation is certainly nice), but yeah, that 24 hr CUN overnight tomorrow will be niiiiiice.

 

[scoreboardII]

Nice attempt at humor...

slow to gear speed,

Slow to gear speed? 270 isn't fast enough?

 

[Lear70]

From 290 at 12,000 feet downwind mid-field? (that's pretty typical in ATL). Yeah, you gotta slow, seeing as you also need to be below 250 by 10,000 and still keep descending.

Trying to slow from 290 to 250 AND descend from 12,000 to 6,000 with just the gear and speed brakes out to make the base leg just abeam the FAF by 6,000 (where they'll further clear you to 4,000 and ask you if you have the airport on a short approach day) isn't *QUITE* doable if you're at 290 abeam the field clean. We've tried it.

It *IS* doable if you're already at 250 abeam the field OR if you have a little more distance to descend before they turn you base. 270 kts level at 12,000 abeam midfield might work, but I haven't tried it yet. Most of us hate dropping the gear that high and that fast, it's noisy as crap, scares the bejeezus out of the F/A's, and makes them irritable seeing as we usually double-chime them for landing BEFORE putting the gear down (which signals them they have about 2-3 minutes before touchdown). Not to mention, if ATL changes their mind, you're dragging the gear around the pattern 10-15-20 miles extended downwind. (see above comment about having tried it).

It will truly be interesting seeing what you guys do with the ATL operation. It really is unique. Not impossible, just different than every other high-density airport in the country.

 

[dicko]

Not to mention, if ATL changes their mind, you're dragging the gear around the pattern 10-15-20 miles extended downwind. (see above comment about having tried it).

The gear will come up again if you ask it nicely