Swa hawaii update

[Microclimates]

More ********************ters in the 75 cabin correct? Makes all the difference on a 5 hour flight...

 

[canyonblue]

More ********************ters in the 75 cabin correct? Makes all the difference on a 5 hour flight...

More passengers in the 75 cabin correct?

 

[scoreboardII]

HI rumored announcement grows exponentially in relation to the amount the company wants a signed contract.

 

[Dan Roman]

I don't know which of those ideas I hate worse-
Another acquisition of a super young carrier with captains younger than me- who has routes where we want to grow-
Or the merger with Alaska that will have to be a mere combination of strong carriers

At least Alaska guys aren't so young -
Piss on both those ideas
If another is announced- the junior FOs will not be remotely so quiet as last time-Face it- senior FOs got upgrades out of air tran at THE EXPENSE of SWA junior FOs.

You are right there Wave, mergers benefit a few who line their pockets in the deal, but employees generally pay for it. Which is why I'm surprised you were talking up a merger with HA, we have 5 year widebody Captains you would go below as well as at least some F/O's

 

[waveflyer]

A) I don't talk it up like I want it to happen.
I don't believe that my posts on FI have any impact whatsoever on what happens. I just view us buying HAL as about a 15-20% chance of happening.
JMO.

But....No I wouldn't dan-

Why would you believe you'd get a better integration than air tran?
Isn't that showing an awful lot of the arrogance that you claim we have towards air tran?

Regardless of what they may say here (remember all the air tran posters here who WANTED SWA to buy them until it actually happened?) I wouldn't expect 1 air tran pilot to vote yes on anything that gives another airline a better integration than what they got- and frankly I don't blame them. It's just as unrealistic to think you guys won't get DOH minus 3-5 years as it was for any air tran pilot to think they'd get slotted in above Morris pilots who were stapled.
If anything you'd get the same or less than air tran.

 

[waveflyer]

HI rumored announcement grows exponentially in relation to the amount the company wants a signed contract.

Exactly-
They'll use Hawaii.

Please spread that too. Swa absolutely will tie this contract to the draw if Hawaii-
Which is pretty silly

The flying isn't that great to there

 

[BentOver]

Who's the arrogant one?

You're already telling us how we'd be integrated... Geez, can't figure out why SWA is getting the reputation it's getting.

In some ways the General is gaining more respect through your arrogant posts

 

[waveflyer]

Answer the question then-

Whether it's you, or JetBlue or Alaska etc-

Do you really think another airline should get a more favorable integration than air tran?

Separate question: do you think it's realistic ?

JMO dude, I've never had any illusions that I speak for any other SWA pilot, much less think the SWA people on FI represent the whole group.

I'm one of the biggest trolls on here and you judge all of Swapa ???
That's smart

 

[Dan Roman]

Wave, you asked why would we get a better integration then AirTran? Because we bring widebody flying to the table, because we have better career expectations as defined by past court cases and most of all we would have no problem fighting it out in court. Gary's little threat to AirTran about operating them separately would be music to our ears!
Domestic 737 flying is viewed quite differently than International widebody flying in any arbitration.

 

[Dan Roman]

The flying isn't that great to there

Especially not in a 737!:beer:

 

[slaquer5]

Wave, you asked why would we get a better integration then AirTran? Because we bring widebody flying to the table, because we have better career expectations as defined by past court cases and most of all we would have no problem fighting it out in court. Gary's little threat to AirTran about operating them separately would be music to our ears!
Domestic 737 flying is viewed quite differently than International widebody flying in any arbitration.

Yep

Same thing the Muse Air and ATA pilots said.

 

[fr8doggie]

Oh man, I'm starting to feel the LUV...

 

[labatt]

Answer the question then-

Whether it's you, or JetBlue or Alaska etc-

Do you really think another airline should get a more favorable integration than air tran?

Separate question: do you think it's realistic ?

Just for fun......American buys SWA in 3 years. (0% chance of couse, but hypothetically) What do you feel the SLI should look like?

 

[waveflyer]

Feel it freight!! Feel it!
I don't know, the fedex pilots who travel and jumpseat on us seem to like it.

Dan, widebodies alone mean better career expectations?
That argument in arbitration/SLI awards has really been reserved for the big legacy network carriers that had bigger domestic networks to support them. Even then, check out the Nic award and the reasons why.
It's about the network and the revenue generated by the business and how stable that is. You do have some stability from the sources you have, but you don't have the revenue generation to support what we earn on airplanes half your size.

Sorry bud- we don't need to hash it out here- even if it's announced, our opinions on FI would matter as much as they always do-very little.
One thing we can agree on is there will be a stronger fight on both ends, more aggressive, and it will end up in arbitration.
The company wouldn't try and interfere bc they actually thought that their method would lead to less angst. Clearly it didn't.
We probably wouldn't vote for anything but a staple at this point, and you'd have a right to fight against that. The judge would award what he would award.

 

[waveflyer]

Just for fun......American buys SWA in 3 years. (0% chance of couse, but hypothetically) What do you feel the SLI should look like?

All of American stapled behind our most recent 2014 new hire

 

[canyonblue]

Just for fun......American buys SWA in 3 years. (0% chance of couse, but hypothetically)

With what? Drink coupons. :laugh:

 

[canyonblue]

Because we bring widebody flying to the table, because we have better career expectations as defined by past court cases and most of all we would have no problem fighting it out in court.

I guess Kalitta pilots are gold then.

 

[Jim]

Wave,
Hawaiian would not roll over and accept a staple because the one good thing that came out of the SWA-Air Tran merger was actual research into the law.

Our pilots would never vote to accept a staple or anything that would be acceptable to your inflated view of SWA pilots self-worth.

Federal law says when the two sides cannot agree on a SLI it goes to binding artibration. You SWA guys can vote whatever you want and it just does not matter if we don't vote to accept it.

McCaskill-Bond requires the any company that acquires more than 50% of an airline to merge the employee groups of the two companies. So threats of migrating our flying to SWA and shutting us down are worthless.

M-B requires the artibrator make a "fair seniority list integration". Arbitrators can/will use a combination of DOH, relative seniority, career expectations, rank ratio and fences to achieve this. Hawaiian pilots have everything but rank ratio and DOH (for some of our recent Captains) in the bag. Since rank ratio is based on career expectations that's not really a big deal. Looking at the fact the AA/TWA caused the M-B Act, the Nic award for AWA/USAir and the final SLI from the Delta/NWA merger it is obvious no arbitrator is going to do anything other than a relative seniority with fences and maybe a slight rank ratio. They are not going to staple anyone.

So go ahead and pound your chest about how you would staple us. All you're going to end up with is a sore chest and bruised ego.

And BTW as Dan always says, you would piss off every local in Hawaii and their loyality to Hawaiian would not transfer to SWA. Disregard that all you want but it is a big part of the state's culture and locals buy a huge amount of tickets to the mainland on Hawaiian. It's not good pissing off a large portion of your customer base.

 

[HowardBorden]

Just for fun......American buys SWA in 3 years. (0% chance of couse, but hypothetically)

That's just it, there is practically no one that can afford a hostile takeover of SWA, which is one huge reason I decided this was where I wanted to work.

 

[Nindiri]

At what ratio of angry stapled pilots to RSW pilots does the company culture turn into a dysfunctional workplace where nobody is happy?