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Swa hawaii update

Dan Roman

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Tell you what Dan, I'll pitch a fastball on your behalf. HAL gets the A321 NEOs up and rolling in what, 2017? You watch. HAL will either codeshare up the wazoo or merge with Virgin America / JetBlue (you already codeshare with both, correct?); adding that to the widebody service and cargo on the A330 will equal Cash Cash CASH!!! If SWA enters that fray it will become a bloodbath. But you know what? The loser will be..... Alaska. HAL will maintain it's higher-end customer base with free food and first class, while SWA will maintain it's dirt-cheapskate customer base and do well, too. Leaving Alaska with..... well I don't know but they have deep pockets and are not dumb, so will probably fall back or die trying. I wish them good luck. Maybe HAL will have an opportunity to buy Alaska and REALLY give SWA hell!!

Well you are correct (and not just because you supported my post). I had a conversation with the high level former SWA exec that is at HA now. His take SWA coming to Hawaii would be less of an issue to HA (If they did, a big if) than the other carriers. I think his comment was that there was other much lower hanging fruit in the market. AK certainly would be more vulnerable than us. Whatever happens in the west coast market, HA has positioned itself that our International routes are maturing (and our biggest money maker), we own Inter-Island and that's not even remotely vulnerable and the west coast will be what's it's gong to be. Unless someone wants to suffer some pretty heavy losses they are not going to take market share from us. Clearly SWA is not in a position to compete on service!
You are also spot on about the cargo.. that's morphing into a huge revenue generator for us to the west coast as well as International.
 

waveflyer

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Since when has SWA ever entered into a bloodbath?

And do it for Hawaii??
Hawaii is not California
 

HighSpeedClimb

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It's a little odd that the SWA folks are on here crowing about being "cheaper". A 737 has much higher seat mile costs to Hawaii than the larger airplanes. 737's work on thin markets, but they don't work at all as a low cost alternative to compete in high volume markets between Hawaii and the west coast.

I wonder why HAL thinks they're such big shots. Nice product I'll agree. But a windfall when AQ and ATA and now GO out of market. You would think the money would be rolling in. Nice to see in their 3rd or 4th BK the Hawaii government gave them a loan guarantee of $25 million. Something AQ was not offered. Either way, if it not for charging bags HAL would be losing money in a market with barely any competition. They pull out of markets that competition sticks it to them. HAL will be consumed not merged in the future and passengers care nothing more than the cheapest flights. I had the pleasure of living in Hawaii for 19 yrs with AQ and know how things work out here. Expensive to live Hawaii so cheap fares work when a company does it correctly with 26 airplanes attacking the market. The time will come so my advice to the large headed HAL pilots on this site..... Figure out how to raise revenue and not just squeak by on luggage fees. Good luck in the future I have over 50 ex AQ friends there that I'd like to see have a long career. Consumers go where they get the most bang for their buck. Hope SWA doesn't come out and attack the islands. Either way I'm sure some major or National will come save you or maybe even your politicians.

I miss flying out of Hawaii and all my friends who I worked with for 20 yrs.

Good luck HAL
 

Dan Roman

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I wonder why HAL thinks they're such big shots. Nice product I'll agree. But a windfall when AQ and ATA and now GO out of market. You would think the money would be rolling in. Nice to see in their 3rd or 4th BK the Hawaii government gave them a loan guarantee of $25 million. Something AQ was not offered. Either way, if it not for charging bags HAL would be losing money in a market with barely any competition. They pull out of markets that competition sticks it to them. HAL will be consumed not merged in the future and passengers care nothing more than the cheapest flights. I had the pleasure of living in Hawaii for 19 yrs with AQ and know how things work out here. Expensive to live Hawaii so cheap fares work when a company does it correctly with 26 airplanes attacking the market. The time will come so my advice to the large headed HAL pilots on this site..... Figure out how to raise revenue and not just squeak by on luggage fees. Good luck in the future I have over 50 ex AQ friends there that I'd like to see have a long career. Consumers go where they get the most bang for their buck. Hope SWA doesn't come out and attack the islands. Either way I'm sure some major or National will come save you or maybe even your politicians.

I miss flying out of Hawaii and all my friends who I worked with for 20 yrs.

Good luck HAL

My posts are simply a reaction to the SWA folks on here that think SWA could merge with us, not that I think we are "big shots". They are also a reaction to people like you that SWA coming into the market is a threat to us. The simple fact is too many SWA folks get on here with an overblown "we are going to kick your ass" attitude. You are going to get some negative feedback, hence my posts that counter the little "warrior spirit" crap on here that somehow think SWA could hurt us in the market.
Hawaiian is bit player player in the industry, but we are a dominant one in Hawaii. As long as there are people that want to go to Hawaii, Hawaiian will always be able to fill up their planes to and around the Hawaiian Islands. Clearly we are not a financial powerhouse, but we are in exceptionally good shape. We are probably a lot less vulnerable in our market than you are to Virgin America and JetBlue domestically.
Clearly you cannot compete on service to Hawaii, we also have a strong seat mile cost advantage. You can't compete on cost or service.
 
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Dan Roman

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I wonder why HAL thinks they're such big shots. Nice product I'll agree. But a windfall when AQ and ATA and now GO out of market. You would think the money would be rolling in. Nice to see in their 3rd or 4th BK the Hawaii government gave them a loan guarantee of $25 million. Something AQ was not offered. Either way, if it not for charging bags HAL would be losing money in a market with barely any competition. They pull out of markets that competition sticks it to them. HAL will be consumed not merged in the future and passengers care nothing more than the cheapest flights. I had the pleasure of living in Hawaii for 19 yrs with AQ and know how things work out here. Expensive to live Hawaii so cheap fares work when a company does it correctly with 26 airplanes attacking the market. The time will come so my advice to the large headed HAL pilots on this site..... Figure out how to raise revenue and not just squeak by on luggage fees. Good luck in the future I have over 50 ex AQ friends there that I'd like to see have a long career. Consumers go where they get the most bang for their buck. Hope SWA doesn't come out and attack the islands. Either way I'm sure some major or National will come save you or maybe even your politicians.

I miss flying out of Hawaii and all my friends who I worked with for 20 yrs.

Good luck HAL


By the way, were do you get the Hawaiian got a loan and AQ didn't???

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2003/Mar/22/bz/bz01a.html

We never got a loan, as I recall we lobbied for one in the 1990's but didn't receive it. AQ DID get one after 9/11...read the above article. (The article will bring back some memories)
Judging from your posts you have created a lot of misconceptions in your mind about HA to support you're own bias's.
We are doing, just like the rest of the industry, very well. WAY better than at any other time in our 85 year history. Doesn't mean I think we are big shots, but I'll defend us against inaccurate perceptions and arrogant perceptions by a few SWA folks on here.
 

Dan Roman

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And if the link doesn't work, it was AQ that got a loan, not HA. If low fares are all that counts in Hawaii how come Allegiant got it's ass kicked over here, or every other airline that tried to compete on low fares alone. That said, we still have a cost advantage over anyone that comes here because of the fact that our hub is here, maintenance is right here and not 2-3000 miles away, as is everything else that's important to running an airline. That's just one of the many advantages to having our airline "local" vs competing with outside airlines.
People like to start their Hawaiian vacation on Hawaiian Air and for good reason. That's worth millions.
You are trying to demean Hawaiian to make your case and I can debunk every comment you made, I blame the cable news mentality of folks for that type of debate.
 

Dan Roman

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Also not only are all your perceptions wrong about how were are doing financially, (no our bag fees are not what makes us profitable), but 3rd or 4th bankruptcy?? Were do you get that crap? It was only 2! :beer:
 

Dan Roman

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On a happier note, Hawaiian will be hiring soon if not already (sorry I don't keep tabs closer). The latest bid that shifted some more pilots from the 767 to the Bus shows for either 12 or 14 new hires.

Also, long term they cancelled sending back 2 767's that were slated to retire (next year I think). Apparently our push for more outer island flying to the west coast is doing well.
 

Roomwithaview

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Five posts to reply to a pretty benign observation

Talk about some one with an inferiority complex!
 

General Lee

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Actually, they already did. NWA and DAL. Too bad no one was paying attention.

Ooooohhhh snap! Well said Ty.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

BentOver

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So when SWA buys HAL are you gonna quit like PCL??

Yawn.....


The General looks better and better after hearing the arrogance of some of you SWA guys. Going back to my 1 leg day.... You should try it sometime...
 
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Roomwithaview

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Yawn.....


The General looks better and better after hearing the arrogance of some of you SWA guys. Going back to my 1 leg day.... You should try it sometime...

Do it all the time! At a min guarantee of 6.5. Good time$!!!
 

Dan Roman

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Agree. Will need the added range with all our seats.

The problem with the Max, and this came straight from Boeing during the their sales pitch to HA ( we had a company presentation to the pilots when we announced the 321NEO purchase) is the MAX cannot depart some of the outer island airports with a full load. Higher density seating obviously would exasperate the problem. Not to mention the fact that cramming more people into a 737 would just make you even less competitive in the market.
HA has announced that they will be greatly increasing their west coast to Hawaii flying with the NEO's. They are quite vocal about it with the intent of letting other carriers know what kind of market they will be fighting for. I would think that has SWA more hesitant to jump in. Or perhaps the Hawaii flying always has been just a carrot used in negotiations?
 

waveflyer

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Why would it be a carrot dan?
 

General Lee

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Dan has a point Wavey. Hey, can the Max go nonstop to Maui or Kauai from Lubbock or Midland? That would be a carrot for Red I'm sure, especially if he was told Islip to Kona nonstop...



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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