SWA / Frontier Deal Off For Now!

[Richard Gozinya]

I was just about to post that one about the FOREVER in Denver domicile.............NFW!

Wow, like I said, enjoy Republic!

Dick

 

[RedDogC130]

WRITTEN BY SOMEONE OTHER THAN ME ON OUR OTHER FORUM....RD

Don't dismiss the precedent of what happened to the Former Muse/Transtar
pilots. They (their ALPA MEC) refused to accept a staple to the bottom of the SWA seniority list. The rank and file did not get to vote. The outcome was that SWA operated them as a wholly owned subsidiary for 2 or so years and then put them straight into chapter 7 for liquidation, bypassing chapter 11 bankruptcy. Plenty of airlines were happy to take their aircraft without the problem of having to deal with labor integration issues. There was no airline at that point, only aircraft, so there were no employees to deal with. The result was that instead of EVERY Muse/Transtar pilot being a Captain at SWA by 1990, they all went straight to unemployment and got to start over wherever they could get hired. A few did get on at SWA the old fashioned way, they interviewed after getting a 737 type and came on as new hires in 1988 with some 3 years and a huge percentage less seniority than they would have had.
SWA could do what GK has said, which is operate Frontier as a separate entity for 2 years and then "gradually draw it down as 737's replace the Airbus". Lynx could be operated separately as well and retained indefinitely. It already seems that their pilots would be happy to join SWA at the bottom and move up from there.
A problem with this is that F9 pilots would be in 2 camps. One that is unhappy with their situation and could be disruptive. The other would be unhappy with the first group and who would have accecpted whatever deal they could have wrangled out of SWA/SWAPA.
Everyone has their own opinion, but this scenario has been acted out in the past and SWA management and SWAPA leadership know it.
In the Muse/Transtar and Morris buyouts I believe it was Herb's position to not automatically hire any of the pilots, but to only offer them preferential interviews. Swapa opposed this as it would have resulted in non-SWAPA pilots flying SWA owned aircraft (Scope issue), for some period of time even it it were to be a matter of months or a year or two.
If anyone has other or more accurate information on this, please correct anything I have posted that is not correct.

 

[terryhfly]

Hold up SWA dudes and take a breath. Where are you getting the info on what FAPA is "Demanding"?

From TOF

All Denver FAPA pilots will be Denver Domicile protected with first dibs on any newly created 737 positions in Denver forever.

They want $3000/month + health benefits for for all their furloughees with no time limit

Yep. Time to kill this one.
Well..bye!!

I will bet my house that this was not brought up during the talks! F9 is not demanding anything. They have concerns about things that will affect their pilot group. Captains at F9 are not demanding to be captains at SWA. Everyone needs to read what the unions are putting out and not speculate on third party hearsay.

 

[StaySeated]

It was a negotiation. During a negotiation, each side exchanges modified proposals until an agreement can be made. Understand? There were no take it or leave it demands from fapa.

 

[shagadelic]

From our merger committee on our SWAPA website. We are getting great communication, it's kind of refreshing.

 

[shearedshaft]

I will bet my house that this was not brought up during the talks! F9 is not demanding anything. They have concerns about things that will affect their pilot group. Captains at F9 are not demanding to be captains at SWA. Everyone needs to read what the unions are putting out and not speculate on third party hearsay.

I'll take that bet. How much is your house worth? I'll put up the value in cash. How do we finalize this?

Next point, you claim that this is hearsay and speculation, why don't you put out what your union communications is? Let's hear their side of it. We are certainly (!) hearing more from our side than we have ever before.

So, although it will be rude to take your house at the same time you lose a seniority number at SWAPA, I am willing to be rude, so let me know how to go forward with this bet.

 

[Vegaspilot99]

I just wish I could see what the SWAPA guys are putting out. The mudslinging here isn't the info I want.

 

[vv100]

Hold up SWA dudes and take a breath. Where are you getting the info on what FAPA is "Demanding"?

From TOF

All Denver FAPA pilots will be Denver Domicile protected with first dibs on any newly created 737 positions in Denver forever.

They want $3000/month + health benefits for for all their furloughees with no time limit

Yep. Time to kill this one.
Well..bye!!

I will bet my house that this was not brought up during the talks! F9 is not demanding anything. They have concerns about things that will affect their pilot group. Captains at F9 are not demanding to be captains at SWA. Everyone needs to read what the unions are putting out and not speculate on third party hearsay.

Straight from the M&A committee
So whats FAPA putting out?

 

[HalinTexas]

Nah, if you choose an airline in the beginning and it goes poorly, that was YOUR fault. This isn't Russia where you are assigned an airline. There are good and bad choices everywhere. National Seniority lists don't take your own bad judgement into account. Can you do the same with a wife you don't like after 10 years too? (Not mine, I love you honey-snookems!!)


Bye Bye--General Lee

Wrong! You, as a pilot or pilot group, don't make the decisions that make a business run. DALPA didn't decide to buy NWA. So, it's not labor's credit or fault that a company succeeds or fails.

 

[shearedshaft]

Well, they're not talking to the press. Two solid days of "not available for comment" from your president.

I suspect FAPA is saying the same to the rank and file that they're saying to the press, that is...nothing.

It really would be hysterical if Lynx got their cards in and ended up senior to FAPA.