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SWA Enters PHL-BOS market...fares 1/10th of US Air

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chase

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
1,217
Southwest route to Boston reveals how competition affects fares


Philadelphia Inquirer

- 02/18/2010 -
Absurd and crazymight describe the ticket prices charged by US Airways Group Inc. to fly nonstop from Philadelphia to Boston. The airline's Web site yesterday had $550 one-way coach fares, or $1,100 round-trip, for current travel on its 16 weekday nonstop flights.

Why so expensive for a trip that is 280 air miles and takes five hours on Amtrak?

In a word: monopoly. No one else flies there from here.

After AirTran Airways stopped flying the route in 2007, ticket prices crept up. Then, in August, Delta Air Lines Inc. dropped the route, and fares rose again.

With Southwest Airlines Co's. announcement Tuesday that it will begin five daily nonstop flights to Boston on June 27 - at an introductory $59 one-way fare - air travel between the two cities is going to get a lot cheaper, and permanently. It's called competition.

"It's amazing, whenever Southwest goes into a city, the fares just plummet," said Jeffrey Erlbaum, owner of Eta Travel in West Conshohocken, who books most of his Philadelphia clients to Boston either on Amtrak or on Southwest flights to Manchester, N.H., and Providence, R.I., rather than pay the sky-high fares.

"And when Southwest pulls out of a city - like they did flying Philadelphia to Hartford, Conn. - the fares went from $100 to $200 round-trip to now up in the $700-to-$800 round-trip range," Erlbaum said. "Because no one else flies there except US Airways."

Southwest, the nation's largest low-fare carrier and Philadelphia's second-busiest airline, said that it was careful about where it flew and that the Philadelphia-Boston route was going to be a great one.

"We are known for sticking with what we try to do," said Southwest's vice president of properties, Bob Montgomery, at a ribbon-cutting for a new terminal expansion and aircraft gates at Philadelphia International Airport.

"We are dropping the fares to one-tenth of the normal fares," Montgomery said. "Typically, when we lower fares, more people are able to fly, and so it expands the marketplace."

The $59 introductory fare to Boston, which is being matched by US Airways for the period of Southwest's fare sale June 27 to Aug. 13, will absolutely go up, but nowhere near present levels.

"The fares, in round numbers, will eventually look a lot like the fares back and forth to Pittsburgh," said airline analyst Bob McAdoo, with Avondale Partners.

"The distances are about the same. Philly-Pitt was for years a monopoly by US Airways with high fares," McAdoo said. "Southwest came in with some extremely low fares and a modest number of flights." The result now: You can find US Airways one-way to Pittsburgh in March for $59 and $89.

"The Boston fares will gravitate down," McAdoo said. "It will cost you about the same to go to Boston as it now does to go to Pittsburgh."

US Airways can charge high prices for a short-haul flight to Boston because there is no easy way to connect to another carrier and get there. "It's tough to find an alternative. It's not unique to US Airways or unique to this market," McAdoo said. "You find really high fares where nobody else competes."

Analysts agree the new route is a smart move for Southwest, which began flying to Boston from Chicago and Baltimore in August.

Although US Airways' revenue will take a hit, in the context of its overall network, the new competition will not have a measurable effect on finances, analysts say.

"The assets of an airline are a portfolio of assets, so no one route is a make-or-break route," said airline analyst Dan McKenzie of Next Generation Equity Research.

Boston was the sixth-largest market for US Airways in Philadelphia in 2008, but Philadelphia's largest airline also has international revenue, and Philadelphia is its international hub. With 65 percent of the Philadelphia market, compared with Southwest's 14 percent, "Southwest is still a pretty small competitor overall in Philadelphia," McKenzie said.

Southwest is shrinking about 7 percent overall in the first and second quarters - eliminating airplane seats and capacity - in markets where it competes with US Airways and "there is direct overlap between the two carriers," McKenzie said. "Southwest is having a bigger impact in Denver and in St. Louis, where it has dislodged American Airlines from the market essentially."

"Southwest has had success competing against American and United, which historically have higher cost structures and higher fares, vs. US Airways, which has one of the lower cost structures among legacy carriers," McKenzie said. "I would argue US Airways fares, on average, are lower than some of its peers."

But not from Philadelphia to Boston.
 
Stop, delete thread. Now 5 pages from Walmart, Target and Home Depot shoppers on how SWAs low prices are killing the industry. :)
 
No Scope=Corporate America has killed the airline industry, and many other industries !!

SWA=highest paid employees.. Just doesn't have 10 buildings like AA,UN,DL with 500 vice presidents, and directors taking huge money on the backs of average Americans !!

Americans one day will get tired of this behavior !! Its coming !! Remember it is the UNITED STATES !!! No CEO is worth over 2 million a year. DL's=10 million, do you think he is worth that? NO
 
No Scope=Corporate America has killed the airline industry, and many other industries !!

I'll give you that one. That's only part of it though.

SWA=highest paid employees..
Turn your clock back 10 years------>SWA=LOWEST paid employees!
But when you have people that are willing to work for substandard wages, and pay for their training, then you have a new low in the industry that has been set as the standard.


Just doesn't have 10 buildings like AA,UN,DL with 500 vice presidents, and directors taking huge money on the backs of average Americans !!

You mean on the backs of their employees. I have often believed that if you want to sit in the big chair, risk is part of the job. Let their pay equal their performance!

Americans one day will get tired of this behavior !! Its coming !! Remember it is the UNITED STATES !!! No CEO is worth over 2 million a year. DL's=10 million, do you think he is worth that? NO
It's already here!
No I don't think any CEO is worth that.
 
Wrong! swa's prices KILLED the industry.

And you work at Delta? Many would say that RJ's killed the industry, and what airline was the first to allow it's feeder to fly a jet? "Scope out RJ's" :laugh: your username is a pathetic parody of your ineffectiveness of your own pilot group. Now I remember why I log on here only 4 times a year, all the same morons who have nothing intellegent to add to a conversation. You must be a thrill on a 4 day trip. :puke:
 
You should grow a bigger mustache, that will really show your management DALPA means business.

Sorry, I'm not an ALPA officer.

And you work at Delta? Many would say that RJ's killed the industry, and what airline was the first to allow it's feeder to fly a jet?
While you're talking out of your nut drainer, maybe you should explain how many rj's have been taken out of the industry?
Of course, I don't expect much of an answer from a guy that could only get hired by "paying for his job."

"Scope out RJ's" :laugh: your username is a pathetic parody of your ineffectiveness of your own pilot group.
Says the guy who's name is canyonblue! Wasn't your pilot group the first to support "age 65?" Hypocrisy at it's finest. I've learned to expect nothing less from you skirts!

Now I remember why I log on here only 4 times a year, all the same morons who have nothing intellegent to add to a conversation. You must be a thrill on a 4 day trip. :puke:
Hey canyonblue, stop back when you have less time, k?
 
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I just find it interesting that you morons are so entranced by Southwest Airlines that you end up on every thread that contains the word "Southwest". I really could give a crap what goes on at any other airline, it really doesn't interest me at all. So I don't understand the weird behavior.

I suppose there are some people who have an unhealthy obsession with an airline, although I really can't understand the sickness. Or maybe I am wrong, maybe I'll just check some of the other threads that have "Southwest" in the title to see if my theory is correct. You guys are actually freaking me out, you're kind of like a bunch of stalkers. yuck!!
 
I'll give you that one. That's only part of it though.

Turn your clock back 10 years------>SWA=LOWEST paid employees!
But when you have people that are willing to work for substandard wages, and pay for their training, then you have a new low in the industry that has been set as the standard.

I don't know where you get your pay numbers from, but SWA has been nowhere near the bottom in the last 15 years. Pay rate does not equal pay. Pay per day is where it is at. $250 an hour doesn't work so well when you sit fot 1.5 - 2 hours every time you land.

Pay for training? I never gave SWA a dime for any of my training. I had to have a type, but the training was no different because of it. Dropping the type would make no difference to the bottom line, although it may make upgrading a little less flexible.
 
I just find it interesting that you morons are so entranced by Southwest Airlines that you end up on every thread that contains the word "Southwest". I really could give a crap what goes on at any other airline, it really doesn't interest me at all. So I don't understand the weird behavior.

And yet you wrote just this 2 posts above:

And you work at Delta? Many would say that RJ's killed the industry, and what airline was the first to allow it's feeder to fly a jet? "Scope out RJ's" :laugh: your username is a pathetic parody of your ineffectiveness of your own pilot group.
More swa hypocrisy at it's finest!

I suppose there are some people who have an unhealthy obsession with an airline, although I really can't understand the sickness. Or maybe I am wrong, maybe I'll just check some of the other threads that have "Southwest" in the title to see if my theory is correct. You guys are actually freaking me out, you're kind of like a bunch of stalkers. yuck!!

Buh bye canyonblue.......See you in another 3 months!:bawling:
 
Southwest should charge fares that are in line with it's costs. $59 fares are preditory and designed to hurt the competitor more than stimulate travel. A $300 fare would at least have the appearance of being a legitimate fare.
 
Southwest should charge fares that are in line with it's costs. $59 fares are preditory and designed to hurt the competitor more than stimulate travel. A $300 fare would at least have the appearance of being a legitimate fare.

Funny, do realize how many up starts where killed by the LLC s , just doing what you claim SWA should not be doing to the LLCs ?

I guess its a one way street....
 
Southwest should charge fares that are in line with it's costs. $59 fares are preditory and designed to hurt the competitor more than stimulate travel. A $300 fare would at least have the appearance of being a legitimate fare.

BUB,

Actually the cost for this 280 mile flight is a higher seat cost per mile than our longer flights....flights under 500 miles have been the routes where SWA has not been making money on so that is why our recent fare sales have targeted those routes more than the longer ones.

No all seats sell for $59 obviously but it will certainly get the buzz going and we'll fill up a larger number of those seats with more expensive seats.

Not to mention saving our customers hundreds of dollars which can be used for other products or for their families. I think that is a pretty good thing to be proud of.
 
No Scope=Corporate America has killed the airline industry, and many other industries !!

SWA=highest paid employees.. Just doesn't have 10 buildings like AA,UN,DL with 500 vice presidents, and directors taking huge money on the backs of average Americans !!

Americans one day will get tired of this behavior !! Its coming !! Remember it is the UNITED STATES !!! No CEO is worth over 2 million a year. DL's=10 million, do you think he is worth that? NO

Scarlet,

I couldn't agree with you more. Why do we need all of this brilliant management? It is totally out of control.
 
No Scope=Corporate America has killed the airline industry, and many other industries !!

SWA=highest paid employees.. Just doesn't have 10 buildings like AA,UN,DL with 500 vice presidents, and directors taking huge money on the backs of average Americans !!

Americans one day will get tired of this behavior !! Its coming !! Remember it is the UNITED STATES !!! No CEO is worth over 2 million a year. DL's=10 million, do you think he is worth that? NO

Didn't SWA just now pay for VNAV?? There's a cost advantage right there....and all these years I thought it was Fuel Hedging or not doing the required maintenance....How sorry I am for not seeing how great SWA is!!
 
Turn your clock back 10 years------>SWA=LOWEST paid employees!
But when you have people that are willing to work for substandard wages, and pay for their training, then you have a new low in the industry that has been set as the standard.

A -- Not entirely true.
B -- Where did you work before you became a DAL U-boat commander ??
 
Southwest should charge fares that are in line with it's costs. $59 fares are preditory and designed to hurt the competitor more than stimulate travel. A $300 fare would at least have the appearance of being a legitimate fare.

Have you ever bought ANYTHING on sale? It's called marketing.

Gup
 
Wrong! swa's prices KILLED the industry.

Oh goody, more inane drivel from the idiot king. It's called business and SWA is winning. Get over not getting hired, if you were a decent person you MIGHT have passed the interview, you are not and you FAILED. Get over it!!
 
Sorry...nice try!

A lot of us in the 90's weren't going to front SWA its training costs when the best paying and largest airlines were hiring instead. So the hate isn't from not being hired....I sure would be pi$$ed though if I had to get a type to interview and couldn't fit the Herb Turd mold.....

SWA IS winning (for now)....re-read my statement above.....what goes around, comes around!!
 
Sorry...nice try!

A lot of us in the 90's weren't going to front SWA its training

Actually getting the type has absolutely nothing with SWA's training. Where I got my type wasn't even close to using SWA's training or procedures. And my type didn't cost me a dime.

SWA IS winning (for now)....re-read my statement above.....what goes around, comes around!!

Can you tell us when this is gonna happen? People have been making that prediction....oh....since 1971. Actually since 1968 when even Braniff, Continental and Texas International keeping SWA in court for 3 years didn't keep SWA from getting off the ground.

You rememebr that, don't you?

On June 17th, 1971, Kelleher argued in front of the Texas Supreme Court because Braniff and Texas International had filed yet one more court brief to keep SWA from making their first flight. Kelleher won the court decision, and as you no doubt remember,the next morning, SWA made their first flight from DAL-SAT.

I can remember a FA telling me that SWA would never make it in the Northeast because they "couldn't fly in snow". See, that FA made a prediction too....based on.... ?

Is your prediction based on the same information that FA had or is it based on....wishing....and....hoping...and even praying ?
 
Sorry...nice try!

.

SWA IS winning (for now)....re-read my statement above.....what goes around, comes around!!


????? What us giving everyone jumpseat when they did not have one to give back? Us letting multiple j/s on even thought we did not get it in return?
SWA letting pilots of failed airlines use us for travel to get home? For telling the gate agent to pull the jetway back when I have seen an offline pilot up in the terminal left behind? For helping w/ wheelchairs, a lost kid? Please tell me about your (what comes around goes around)? I have a saying for you my brother. KARMA IS A BITCH........................
 
????? What us giving everyone jumpseat when they did not have one to give back? Us letting multiple j/s on even thought we did not get it in return?
SWA letting pilots of failed airlines use us for travel to get home? For telling the gate agent to pull the jetway back when I have seen an offline pilot up in the terminal left behind? For helping w/ wheelchairs, a lost kid? Please tell me about your (what comes around goes around)? I have a saying for you my brother. KARMA IS A BITCH........................

Aww gee thanks Slaquer....the industry is SO much better because of you SWA guys!!! (that's what you wanted to hear right?) Thanks for the the Jumpseat, you guys rock! (Another thing you wanted to hear right?)

BTW, Your welcome when you get a zed next to nothing fare to Europe like your SWA OAK Chief Pilot who passed on his card "in case we need anything".....kind gesture, glad to have him, but I wouldn't have brought it up until an arrogant A-hole like yourself starts schooling me on Karma...BITCH!

Thanks to you I can get to 68 cities in the US....and I can....aww nevermind, you guys are still the coolest leather wearing aces of the base!!
 
Actually getting the type has absolutely nothing with SWA's training. Where I got my type wasn't even close to using SWA's training or procedures. And my type didn't cost me a dime.



Can you tell us when this is gonna happen? People have been making that prediction....oh....since 1971. Actually since 1968 when even Braniff, Continental and Texas International keeping SWA in court for 3 years didn't keep SWA from getting off the ground.

You rememebr that, don't you?

On June 17th, 1971, Kelleher argued in front of the Texas Supreme Court because Braniff and Texas International had filed yet one more court brief to keep SWA from making their first flight. Kelleher won the court decision, and as you no doubt remember,the next morning, SWA made their first flight from DAL-SAT.

I can remember a FA telling me that SWA would never make it in the Northeast because they "couldn't fly in snow". See, that FA made a prediction too....based on.... ?

Is your prediction based on the same information that FA had or is it based on....wishing....and....hoping...and even praying ?

Get over yourself hero....tap your fellow pilot in your 737 on the shoulder and ask him if he bought a type...you'd be the exception that didn't!!

Look at Delta 15-20 years ago....we were the Family airline, we were the most employee friendly, we WERE the highest paid....it goes around man...you are the guys mahogany row gun for....good luck in the future....

Your brown stain just appeared around Boston and LGA, Let's see how things work out there for ya....kinda like the mx and fat guys....you can't hide from it!!
 
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BTW, Your welcome when you get a zed next to nothing fare to Europe like your SWA OAK Chief Pilot who passed on his card "in case we need anything".....kind gesture, glad to have him, but I wouldn't have brought it up until an arrogant A-hole like yourself starts schooling me on Karma...BITCH!

Thanks to you I can get to 68 cities in the US....and I can....aww nevermind, you guys are still the coolest leather wearing aces of the base!!

I rather be an A hole, than a Bitter little sissy that has got my ass kicked so many times that I hate life ... :)

Please seek help.
 
Lumberg, you are one bitter mofo. Get over it, you'll get another shot.


With all the complaining, arguing, bickering, etc atc, about how crappy the industry is, I've yet to see anyone do anything to change it. So b1tch and moan all you want, it's not gonna change a dam thing.
 

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