SWA delaying new planes, adding used Westjet birds --article

[Tripower455]

Yep. As long as I could keep my ATL base with roughly the same seniority, I'd have happily integrated.

Ask the MCO SW FOs getting displaced about how happy THEY are about the integration.

 

[Tripower455]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, my friend. To some, they believed it was at least equal. To those living in and around Atlanta, or folks who made Captain quickly, I'd say they viewed moving to Southwest as a lateral (if not backwards) move. It's all about perspective. Now, a 1-3 year FO on reserve? Southwest would definitely be a step up in pay, certain work rules as well. There's the bulk of your AT to SWA transfers. Add in the things I (jokingly) listed and I could see why some would want to leave.

Agreed, there are always folks that are happy where they are for various reasons. Heck, I know guys who chose to stay at the various commuters I've been at over the years, when there were much better options available.

You have to admit, that the vast majority in the industry, not to mention a ton of AT folks (prior to 9/27 of course ), would've preferred to be at SW vs. AT, given the choice. I've had lots of contact with AT folks over the years, and every one of them would've preferred to be at SW. I've written several letters for AT guys over the years and all would've come over had they been hired.

I know a lot of your contemporaries like to bring up the pay all the time, but I'd keep my current contract (and the lower rates that go with it) any day over yours...IF...I could keep the quality of life I'm currently afforded. That's not gonna happen though.

Of course. But, FWIW, every FAT guy I've flown with have said that they are much happier over here than they ever were over there. Most have been former Capts too.

 

[ATLplt]

Ask the MCO SW FOs getting displaced about how happy THEY are about the integration.

Would those MCO FO's be happier if our 15 to going on 20 year former AT Capt's came over as Capt's (where they belong) instead. They may be upset, but it's because of the senior FO, Capt seat grab that their QOL is suffering. I posed that question to a SWA FO riding the jump, (who was bitching openly to a stapled FO and about to downgrade Capt), and it finally dawned on him as to why things are the way they are. I couldn't believe that he hadn't figured out that these weren't AT FO's bumping him out.

As to the rest of your response, I'm glad to see our guys are enjoying themselves. It gives the rest of us hope that as sh!tty as things are getting on our side of the Mason-Dixon there will be some sort of silver lining. I will say though that the majority of folks coming next year are the ones that will suffer "juniority", commuting west, with no upgrade in sight, for a VERY long time. The praise that's being sung now will surely turn south a bit.

 

[canyonblue]

I couldn't believe that he hadn't figured out that these weren't AT FO's bumping him out.

Because they weren't AT FO's bumping him out, they were SWA FO's. That's the way the SLI went down, I can't believe you haven't figured that out yet. If you all wanted arbitration, it only took one thing to bring it. Yet over 80% of you didn't want to pull that lever, don't blame anyone else for your decisions.

 

[Tripower455]

Would those MCO FO's be happier if our 15 to going on 20 year former AT Capt's came over as Capt's (where they belong) instead.

Absolutely, since they wouldn't be as likely to be displaced in that scenario. Either way, they are screwed, but they are screwed worse with SL10 than they were with SL9.

They may be upset, but it's because of the senior FO, Capt seat grab that their QOL is suffering. I posed that question to a SWA FO riding the jump, (who was bitching openly to a stapled FO and about to downgrade Capt), and it finally dawned on him as to why things are the way they are. I couldn't believe that he hadn't figured out that these weren't AT FO's bumping him out.

Oh, they are intimately aware of why they're getting displaced. Most blame SWApA (as do I) for not pushing some sort or ROR (many in SWApA actually fought against ROR, because the senior vacation poachers, boat movers and seasonal carpet baggers would be more limited in their flexibility). They also ignored the root problem, which is our monthly -3/+1 vacancy bid BS. Most realize that the AT guys coming in on top of the FO lists are not to blame, although they are an easy target for some folk's ire.

As to the rest of your response, I'm glad to see our guys are enjoying themselves. It gives the rest of us hope that as sh!tty as things are getting on our side of the Mason-Dixon there will be some sort of silver lining. I will say though that the majority of folks coming next year are the ones that will suffer "juniority", commuting west, with no upgrade in sight, for a VERY long time. The praise that's being sung now will surely turn south a bit.

I hope that folks come over with an open mind. I truly believe that you'll like it over here once the dust settles. Before 9/27, WN was one of the most sought after jobs in the industry. We have our 10% too, but overall, it's a great group of folks. Everyone laughs at the "culture" BS, and so did I, after working at 7 other airlines prior to SW. The fact is that it is (or at least was) different than anywhere else I worked. It is definitely being a little more strained these days, and not only because of the AT deal.


As unbelievable as it will seem to the FI braintrust, even the downgraded FAT guys are doing fine. Every one I have flown with have been great guys, happy here, and are making very close to the same or more $ than they were making before, with less days worked (their words). Some are making a lot more since they figured out how to game the premium open time system using their mega seniority in seat.

 

[ATLplt]

Because they weren't AT FO's bumping him out, they were SWA FO's. That's the way the SLI went down, I can't believe you haven't figured that out yet. If you all wanted arbitration, it only took one thing to bring it. Yet over 80% of you didn't want to pull that lever, don't blame anyone else for your decisions.

Sorry, "former" AT FO's is how I should've worded that, and I certainly understand how things went down. I figured it out a long time ago.

The vote went the way it did on our side because of a few things: misinformation, disorganization, and lots of guys who had lost their jobs prior due to unfavorable mergers, bankruptcy, etc, voting for a "sure thing" in keeping their jobs. I'm not one of those. I'm young and have a lot of time to try out something else if things went south and we were let go somehow, hence I would have liked to have seen SL10 shot down. It was purely a vote based on personal risk and ability to weather a storm, if need be. I certainly don't blame either side or for voting the way they did. We all have personal motivations for our actions as individuals.

 

[ATLplt]

Tripower, you seem like a reasonable guy. Good discussion.

 

[Tripower455]

Tripower, you seem like a reasonable guy. Good discussion.

I wouldn't go that far! But thanks, and ditto.

 

[ngsp]

+1 for tripower. if most the corndogs are like him, we will all survive just fine. i will be a downgraded capt for the next 10 years, but on the bright side, i am young and will retire at 6% of the list. i will retire a rich SOB and hold a line to boot. i say lets gets this over with, make some money and grow this airline so i can spend 20 plus years in the left seat. it sucks for the old guys at airtran and it may not be where they saw their career at this point, but no one is guarnteed anything in this business. you have to make every situation, even the unjust ones, work for you. on the day of retirement the only thing that counts is the retirement account balance. if the senior rsw fo's want to sit rsv in oak for the next 10 years as airtran guys start upgrading again go for it. i will take your senior fo slot with a smile.

 

[jball2]

Well said ngsp. BTW-most SWA folks are pretty laid back like TRI.

 

[PCL_128]

Ask the MCO SW FOs getting displaced about how happy THEY are about the integration.

Tell them to blame Steve Chase and Gary Kelly.

 

[Tripower455]

Tell them to blame Steve Chase and Gary Kelly.

Most all of them do.

 

[scoreboardII]

All of them do. We know who to blame, and its not a pilot on either side.

 

[Tripower455]

All of them do. We know who to blame, and its not a pilot on either side.

Yup...

Well, PCL should take some of the blame. Just because.

 

[scoreboardII]

Would those MCO FO's be happier if our 15 to going on 20 year former AT Capt's came over as Capt's (where they belong) instead. They may be upset, but it's because of the senior FO, Capt seat grab that their QOL is suffering. I posed that question to a SWA FO riding the jump, (who was bitching openly to a stapled FO and about to downgrade Capt), and it finally dawned on him as to why things are the way they are. I couldn't believe that he hadn't figured out that these weren't AT FO's bumping him out.

As to the rest of your response, I'm glad to see our guys are enjoying themselves. It gives the rest of us hope that as sh!tty as things are getting on our side of the Mason-Dixon there will be some sort of silver lining. I will say though that the majority of folks coming next year are the ones that will suffer "juniority", commuting west, with no upgrade in sight, for a VERY long time. The praise that's being sung now will surely turn south a bit.

Our junior FOs are smart enough to know, it matters not that a senior AT CA now FO gets placed in front of them or a senior SWA FO stays in front of them because your AT CA might have come across as a CA. That junior FO is still at the bottom looking up. Your point is pointless.

Please remember, not one SWA pilot did this to AT pilots, place the crosshairs where they belong, on the GK and team.