SWA delaying new planes, adding used Westjet birds --article

[redflyer65]

Howard,

You can't get past the hardline ALPA methodology when talking with PCL.

In his world, Airtran should have gotten close to DOH, kept every seat, had plenty of Southwest guys behind them, upgraded immediately to the SWAPA contract (you know, the same SWAPA he can't stand) and had base fences....just for Airtran of course.

So basically, he thought it was fair to keep everything they had...then just add the far better SWAPA contract to the equation. Oh, and that Southwest management was painted into a corner with the whole deal.

Talk about off the ranch and unrealistic.

 

[scoreboardII]

At ATN, approx. 95% of our trips are commutable on both ends.
.

Y'all need to drop this dream, SWA owns the schedule and once de-hubbed, commutables will be few and far between.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

No, what he expected was a ratio that would have worked out to DOH + several years for the AAI pilots because that's what it would have taken to equalize the junior most Capts on both sides and that's what arbitrators basically always do (minus Shuttle America). Their only goal is to ensure the acquiring company doesn't take it in the shorts with training and relocation costs.

 

[27 driver]

Y'all need to drop this dream, SWA owns the schedule and once de-hubbed, commutables will be few and far between.

Do you guys like un-commutable schedules? Is that something SWAPA wanted or is it a management thing. Do most of SWAPA guys live in base?

 

[GoodTimes]

Good question 27. Everytime I've asked I've gotten the old "it'll never happen because that's how we've always done it" response. Maddening sometimes!

 

[scoreboardII]

Do you guys like un-commutable schedules? Is that something SWAPA wanted or is it a management thing. Do most of SWAPA guys live in base?

If you consider the non hub operation, its just a fact of life. With hubs, everyone flows in, and then the last wave of flights all depart to outstations at about the same time. With pt to pt service, the last flight to XYZ may be at 2PM.

It's not a prime scheduling demand by the pilots, even though 50 percent commute. It's already assumed you lose the day before to an AM or day after on a PM.

Lets put it this way, to get more commutables, we would have to give something for it, like a plane change, so last crew out can take it, and then you can make a commute. I'm not in favor of any more plane changes.

 

[PCL_128]

Listen Tool, I'll try and make this as simple as possible. You have stated over and over again that SWA is legally obligated to follow any language changes added to a document after an offer to purchase was made. You are completely WRONG! The ONLY language a purchasing entity is BOUND to (a word you are so fond of using incorrectly) is that which was present during the original offer to purchase. That is the only language that cannot be walked away from without legal recourse. The letter you posted showed exactly that. SWA said we have reviewed the language changes made and will agree to abide by the new language unless and until you alter it again. Get it yet? You simply are not allowed to significantly alter the product including things such as: assets, cash reserves, LABOR CONTRACTS etc. and bind the purchaser to the agreement. Have I made it simple enough for your twelfth grade education to comprehend?

Do they let you out of the house by yourself? Without a helmet? Scary.

It's really simple: abide by the new contract language, or no merger. I just wish they would have picked the latter instead.

 

[PCL_128]

In his world, Airtran should have gotten close to DOH

DOH? That was probably a worst case scenario in arbitration. Something between DOH and relative is more likely, leaning to the relative end of the spectrum. Which is why Chase was scared sh!tless of arbitration.

 

[Beechdriver32]

So, PCL, you believed that a relative seniority integration was your worst case scenario? And you actually convinced your fellow pilots that they deserved and should expect that?

I remember my buddy, an AT Capt, said that his union guaranteed that they were assured the SLI would fall between two "goalposts". DOH and relative. And that nothing less would be acceptable, because it was "guaranteed" in arbitration. I assume you helped form that belief.

I am simply baffled by your level of arrogance and incompetence. You continue to set unrealistic expectations and are upset when they don't come to reality.

Simply amazing. And worst is you have no real idea the actual harm you have done to your fellow pilots.

My friend could have SWA captain pay starting April 1, flying a 717. With a capt retention slot. And a 10 year fence around ATL. Never have to fly a FO seat again. And sir, you convinced him that it was not enough.

Amazing.

 

[scoreboardII]

Bam!

added for five

 

[PCL_128]

So, PCL, you believed that a relative seniority integration was your worst case scenario?

No, I said that DOH was likely our worst case scenario. Relative was likely best case scenario. Read for comprehension next time.

And you actually convinced your fellow pilots that they deserved and should expect that?

Obviously not, based upon the vote.

 

[Beechdriver32]

Ok, got me. It was late, and I mis-wrote. DOH with seat protection was the worst case according to my bud. You sure up some amazing expectations for your buddies.

Also, you claim that the 'vote' proved that your fellow pilots were not along your school of thought. But your pilots were not even given the opportunity to vote on the first offer. Figure loss of captain seat, your current pay, and reupgrade who knows when vs current SWA pay for every AT pilot. That's upwards half a million for my bud, and current SWA pay for every FO, even those on your side of the partition.

You and ALPA by proxy, cost your pilots a lot of money yet you don't seem to see that. Or worse, don't care.

Scary.

 

[maxblast72]

Also, you claim that the 'vote' proved that your fellow pilots were not along your school of thought. But your pilots were not even given the opportunity to vote on the first offer. Figure loss of captain seat, your current pay, and reupgrade who knows when vs current SWA pay for every AT pilot. That's upwards half a million for my bud, and current SWA pay for every FO, even those on your side of the partition.

You and ALPA by proxy, cost your pilots a lot of money yet you don't seem to see that. Or worse, don't care.

Oh, PCL128 luvs it. He gets pulled off a trip this month or next, gets ALPA to pay for a trip to NYC, and gets to hang out with lawyers for a few days and talk about his actions in the summer of 2011. He never did like flying

 

[canyonblue]

No, I said that DOH was likely our worst case scenario. Relative was likely best case scenario.

You never even came close to your "worst case scenario", did you fill out your AirTran application with a crayon?

 

[DonVerita]

If the average AirTran line pays 80 hours (I'm guessing here), and the average Southwest line pays 100 TFP (I'm NOT guessing here), then APC's computed "hourly" comparison doesn't mean jack squat.

Bubba

Just for the sake of argument, assuming your 80/100 comparison is correct, the next question to ask is -- how much work did the SWA pilot have to put in to achieve the 100 TFP and how much work did the AirTran pilot have to put in for the 80 BLOCK? If I have to fly say 3 legs average per day to achieve X while you have to fly 5 legs average per day to achieve Y, then even though you might at the end of the month come out with a higher credit hour number, you had to work a lot harder for it. We both have trip and duty rigs, so when it comes down to it, TFP converted to hourly BLOCK rate is the only concrete comparison. Everything else is subjective and may work as an added benefit depending on various factors.