SWA culture!

[Lear70]

Something that won't push my upgrade to never in a no growth environment. Something that won't change my list percentage at retirement.

That's reasonable enough; none of our guys want to HURT your career expectations.

Something that won't hit me in the paycheck and QOL in the form of decreased relative seniority as my career progresses because of the demographic differances berween the two pilot groups.

Our average age of about half our CA's is possibly an issue in that demographic, but not amongst your F/O's. The majority of our F/O's are in their mid-30's to early 40's, just like the majority of yours. The difference is that *SOME* of our CA's have upgraded 5-7 years before some of your CA's. I suspect that besides those junior CA's of ours, the junior half of both our F/O lists has a very similar age demographic.

Fair and equitable cuts both ways. I don't expect to gain here but I do expect not to lose.

That's fair enough, and I have no problem with that. I don't want you guys to lose anything; that would certainly NOT be fair to your pilots. We recognize, however, that upgrades and hiring are already increasing on your side of the fence from what they were expected to pre-merger because of the growth WE were getting that is now coming to you. That needs to be taken into account as well

That's why I think this thing will get split 7 ways from Sunday, each small portion of the list demographic being broken down and handled differently than the rest of it, not just a simple ratio. There's too many clusters of age and years of service left before retirement, relative bidding position, upgrade expectation, etc, etc, to make an easy ratio fair all the way down.

 

[tico]

Maybe I should just send in my SWAPA card and try to become a non-union Southwest employee after you put it like that. What were we thinking unionizing!

Red, I think I failed to communicate effectively....dont turn in your swapa card....put another way...had the ceo of airtran gone to the pilot group and expressed his desire to craft documents that would make secure their future such that any aquiring entity would be bound by them during the aquisition....had the airtran group had the benefit of a corporate culture that put them first, this entire process would be much different. My interest in this whole process is simply that at Alaska, I work for the same type of sleazy, shareholder/corporate officer compensation first, passenger safety and convenience second and employee,to heck with employees lets outsource corporate structure that the airtran pilots work for...all of swapa's efforts would never produce in the toxic, greedy anti-employee environement that we work in...I do know this..Gary will be counting on, maybe demanding swapa's leadership, when this is all over, in demonstrating to all of his new employees what it means to be part of the southwest family. He will not allow one day of the hired vs aquired attitude....fair skies and following seas my friend...

 

[redflyer65]

Red, I think I failed to communicate effectively....dont turn in your swapa card....put another way...had the ceo of airtran gone to the pilot group and expressed his desire to craft documents that would make secure their future such that any aquiring entity would be bound by them during the aquisition....had the airtran group had the benefit of a corporate culture that put them first, this entire process would be much different. My interest in this whole process is simply that at Alaska, I work for the same type of sleazy, shareholder/corporate officer compensation first, passenger safety and convenience second and employee,to heck with employees lets outsource corporate structure that the airtran pilots work for...all of swapa's efforts would never produce in the toxic, greedy anti-employee environement that we work in...I do know this..Gary will be counting on, maybe demanding swapa's leadership, when this is all over, in demonstrating to all of his new employees what it means to be part of the southwest family. He will not allow one day of the hired vs aquired attitude....fair skies and following seas my friend...

I agree it is a completely different working relationship than I've ever seen before. We do have our issues, but in the big scheme of things it is mostly minor compared to other carriers. Hopefully that continues. Cheers.

 

[SWA/FO]

Hey Lear what does your Father think of this whole SWA/AT thing? What advice has he given you?

 

[freightdogfred]

Something that won't push my upgrade to never in a no growth environment. Something that won't change my list percentage at retirement. Something that won't hit me in the paycheck and QOL in the form of decreased relative seniority as my career progresses because of the demographic differances berween the two pilot groups. Fair and equitable cuts both ways. I don't expect to gain here but I do expect not to lose.

Cool. You should be quite happy with relative seniority then, as it's been pointed out that the demographic of the FO list is quite similar.

 

[Flycatcher99]

We recognize, however, that upgrades and hiring are already increasing on your side of the fence from what they were expected to pre-merger because of the growth WE were getting that is now coming to you. That needs to be taken into account as well.

What are you talking about?

SWA is not upgrading or hiring hardly any, and the few that have been hired/upgraded are due to seasonal increases, as well as recovery of flying that they had reduced in the recession. We haven't done any manning changes as a result of the acquisition. And there is no guarantee that we will.

 

[Ty Webb]

What are you talking about?

SWA is not upgrading or hiring hardly any, and the few that have been hired/upgraded are due to seasonal increases, as well as recovery of flying that they had reduced in the recession. We haven't done any manning changes as a result of the acquisition. And there is no guarantee that we will.

Ah, so the sudden hiring at SWA for the first time since 2008 has nothing to do with taking our delivery slots, huh? :erm:

You could at least be gracious, and say "thank you" to our FO's who were planning to upgrade on those jets, or perhaps get off reserve. :laugh:

 

[SWA/FO]

Oh, so the sudden hiring of several hundred pilots has nothing to do with taking our delivery slots, or filling in for our crew members as we go through 30+ days of required training apiece, huh? :erm:

Get over yourself Ty.... it has to do with you, its about more vacation time.

When you fools go into training to become FOs, they are going to take 2 - 737s out of service a month so we can paint and make them look like SWA birds. They'll probably will still be ugly and have AT at the end of the tail number, there is no helping ugly.

:cartman:

 

[Ty Webb]

You're actually pretty funny, as long as I remember not to take you seriously.

Happy 4th, you oxygen thief. :laugh:

 

[Flycatcher99]

Ah, so the sudden hiring at SWA for the first time since 2008 has nothing to do with taking our delivery slots, huh? :erm:

You could at least be gracious, and say "thank you" to our FO's who were planning to upgrade on those jets, or perhaps get off reserve. :laugh:

Wow. Your delusions know no bounds.

Did you read my entire post? We are not upgrading. We recalled a handful of captains. We hired just enough to drain the two year pool. We did those things because we are short now. Not later. NOW. How could that have anything to do with air tran? You say we have your delivery slots. Then why is SWA's fleet not increasing in size? You are aware we are retiring 300's, right?

Your delusions of grandeur are truly remarkable.