SWA culture!

[rajflyboy]

Lear, from the snapshot, swa continued to hire in 2008 several months longer than AT did. There are several hundred FOs at WN who would be placed junior to your bottom guy w/ straight DOH- the bottom FOs at AT were furloughed in '09- for how long?

Furloughs were 9/3/2008 and no 09. There were 169. First recalls in December 2008 and continued every month thereafter. I know, I was one of them.

Bingo

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

What? Lateral move, really? I mean seriously, you've got to be joking.

You tell me what's lateral, and what might be higher. I'd like to know where your baseline is. Feel free to use any and all carriers..

It's just my personal opinion but after being able to hold captain here, I considered them all as lateral or worse to go to as a new hire. Wouldn't want to chase a few dollars more for loss of seniority and QOL for an undeterminable amount of time. YMMV, newhires or fo's with no upgrade in sight may feel differently.

 

[Fubijaakr]

You're kidding yourself if you believe this pilot group, including the FOs, will vote to approve a deal that knocks a relatively senior captain like Ty out of his seat. The idea of any captain losing his seat is absurd.

So what part of "No bump, no flush" eludes you? Look, man, I love you, but you know as well as I do that putting a pre-1993 AAI Capt. next to a 30 year SWA Capt. is absurd on the face of it.

Here's the solution:

1. No bump no flush
2. Put the pre-October 1993 SWA Capts. on the list.
3. Ratio the rest.

Simple. End of story.

Didn't pass the interview?

Listen, Homeboy. In 1990 when I was looking for a job, I couldn't affort the $8K it took to get a 737 type rating just to get an interview with SWA. I guess you could make the argument that YOU bought your job. The fact is, that's neither here nor there.

But to pretend that somehow SWA pilots are superior to AAI pilots is ridiculous.

Face it, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to fly a 737. The sooner you guys figure that out, the sooner the merger will go smoother. You are all SWA pilots now. Neither group is better than the other.

Seriously, get over yourself. Just remember the 737 is the ENTRY level jet in every single third world country on Earth. Lufthansa F/Os are flying it with commercial ratings that are still wet on their certificates.

 

[waveflyer]

Lear, from the snapshot, swa continued to hire in 2008 several months longer than AT did. There are several hundred FOs at WN who would be placed junior to your bottom guy w/ straight DOH- the bottom FOs at AT were furloughed in '09- for how long?

Furloughs were 9/3/2008 and no 09. There were 169. First recalls in December 2008 and continued every month thereafter. I know, I was one of them.

How long was your most junior pilot furloughed? What was the average furlough length?

I certainly don't want to play politics with your pain, but did you know that over the same time period SWA used all means to avoid furloughs and working w/ SWAPA, we all made significantly less $$ with lower line credits during that same time? SWA had the belief and faith in their pilots & culture and the means to not furlough. With SWA's #'s during the meltdown, every other airline would have furloughed, and did with their own #'s. That ought to tell you about mgmt and Swapa.
For those who don't think the culture of swa is alive and well within Swapa- you do not know what you're saying. We have our debates- but we absolutely look out for each other.

 

[waveflyer]

It's just my personal opinion but after being able to hold captain here, I considered them all as lateral or worse to go to as a new hire. Wouldn't want to chase a few dollars more for loss of seniority and QOL for an undeterminable amount of time. YMMV, newhires or fo's with no upgrade in sight may feel differently.

See, here's where capitalism and competition come into play. You upgraded, had good timing and rode a wave- had to look at your choices and chose to stay, or had to for whatever reason, and are comfortable with your niche in a smaller carrier. But smaller carrier's have inherent risk of failure or acquisition- you got acquired- that's good! and you'll be rewarded very well- but that doesn't mean you get to keep your big fish in a little pond status. That pond is now a much larger body of water.

 

[Dan Roman]

I moved up 130 numbers in ten years, the vast majority of those numbers were retirements, medicals or death. Hardly the exodus you guys are fantasizing about. Two went to SWA, one to Fedex, 2 to Emirates, one to Delta. Perhaps there were more, but it was very unusual, an oddity.

Once guys made captain here, there wasn't much of an incentive to start over. When growth slowed, some junior guys made the decision to go elsewhere, but plenty of pilots left SWA, as well. Lots of 'em. Don't expect an Arbitrator to be as impressed by anecdotes as some of you are.

Seems like a more accurate picture. I'm blown away that some folks think an arbitrator would take into account what airline had the most turnover. If you want to use that logic, what would happen if someone like United bought SWA. Would the senior SWA people be at a disadvantage because in the 80's and 90's more people preferred to work for UAL than SWA?

 

[waveflyer]

Fubi-
No one is saying we are better aviators - we are saying that we have the better, more difficult to get, JOB.
A LOT of people didn't have the money for the type, including me. Hell, I didn't have the money for flight school! But I figured it out bc I really wanted to be here. (and still do and consider that sacrifice the best investment I ever made)
Your statement highlights just 1 of the additional sacrifices Swapa pilots made to get the job. IMO, that's relevant.
Back in the day, you weren't willing to scrap, save, beg, or rearrange your finances for $8k - and took the job that didn't need it. IMO- that's a choice you can live with, but ought not be rewarded.

 

[Just thinking]

Wave flyer,
Another great example of the pilots of SWA working WITH a management that works WITH their pilots. Our senior group of pilots collectively agreed to take a pay freeze to keep all pilots on property after 9/11. Management agreed to do the same. Guess what happened? Management took huge bonuses! Think Herb would have done that to the people that he sat across the table from and shook hands?

Our club 169 guys got hosed over and threatened with their jobs by our austere management and their keen insight into future requirements. A member of our management team said that they never would have furloughed had they know that the fuel prices would have dropped as rapidly as they did in 2008. Our management has no integrity and is the quintessential "Frog and the Scorpion."

Our pilot group has stepped up time and time again to support each other with NO help from our management. You will find our group of pilots professional, considerate and hard working with a kind heart and a willingness to go the extra mile for our "flying family".

 

[waveflyer]

Seems like a more accurate picture. I'm blown away that some folks think an arbitrator would take into account what airline had the most turnover. If you want to use that logic, what would happen if someone like United bought SWA. Would the senior SWA people be at a disadvantage because in the 80's and 90's more people preferred to work for UAL than SWA?

I'll go Ty's route- IF UAL had bought SWA in the 80's & 90's (neverminding the impossibility of that during that time), yes- you are right. And if we bought them in the PRESENT time, the fact that we have hundreds of ex-UAL castaways here at swa ought to be weighed heavily. What is actually being considered are career expectations- nothing highlights a difference in career expectations than when individuals leave one for another. ESPECIALLY in our seniority controlled industry. It means a LOT when someone is willing to start over.

Funny thing is, the PRESENT time, is actually what counts.

 

[SWA/FO]

BTW, get over yourself, this is not a chance of a lifetime for any of us. This is merely an airline merger, not the first, and won't be the last.

Get over myself? WTF, I didn't build this airline all by myself. I'd say pull your head out of your ass or would you rather be bought by Republic? This is a chance of a lifetime. You are stupid if you can't see it. :cartman: