SWA contract amendable- no pay raise?

[Purpled]

purpled...were not here to get you pay raises! The guys that want pay raises can fight for them, that's fine. Personally, the pay raise we get tomorrow will hold me for a while. I would imagine it will take years to iron out this contract so any raise will be far off anyway. I really do want to see some QOL issues addressed and some insurance and medical things improved but I like most of the others here are not going to choke this goose so that you can wave our success in your mngmts faces. I think they made that movie in the late 90's and all the stars are broke or bk.

Just my two cents.

Hey genius, where do you think I work? I'm not counting on you to get me a payraise, we've already done that...pending a bit of voting. And you're right, it is a long process. Anyway, just be glad that I didn't make fun of SWAFO for gloating about how high you have held the bar...really, now.

Anyway, you should consider how to keep pressure on other carriers if/when fuel gets cheaper or hedges start running out. It's not about waving your success in other managements face, it's about pressure. But certainly, like you allude to in your post, make life better for you, not SQ or worse.

Oh yeah, did I mention that you've earned a raise?


What movie?

 

[GuppyWN]

I guess I'm only one vote but I've already had my fill of Kumbya. I'm not saying we ought to break the company but my God son, at least wait until we open before you guys give everything away!

Gup

 

[lowecur]

Why SHOULDN'T we get a raise? I refuse to burn the house down or choke the goose but I have yet to see a valid arguement why we shouldn't get some raise.

And SWA/FO - ah yes, September 1st. One of my favorite days of the year.

Gup

Mgt will have all the charts ready come the 19th.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; you guys want your cake and eat it to. You have mgt that is second to none, and the only reason you're not hurting right now is their smarts. And you will thank them for your good fortune by sitting on what you got till the hedges fully unwind and the company starts taking it up the arz.

This thing will drag on for years, cuz that's just the way things work in this business. SWAPA has prided itself in being able to work with mgt over the years, but this membership is not your fathers membership. It's picked up a ton of newly hired sourpusses the last 5 years from other airlines that are union hardasses.

Wait until they drop the 100 seat rate bomb on you guys. The word adversarial will be on the tip of everyone's tongue at that pt.

imp:

 

[Dangerkitty]

Mgt will have all the charts ready come the 19th.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; you guys want your cake and eat it to. You have mgt that is second to none, and the only reason you're not hurting right now is their smarts. And you will thank them for your good fortune by sitting on what you got till the hedges fully unwind and the company starts taking it up the arz.

This thing will drag on for years, cuz that's just the way things work in this business. SWAPA has prided itself in being able to work with mgt over the years, but this membership is not your fathers membership. It's picked up a ton of newly hired sourpusses the last 5 years from other airlines that are union hardasses.

Wait until they drop the 100 seat rate bomb on you guys. The word adversarial will be on the tip of everyone's tongue at that pt.

imp:

Why you come here and continue to make a fool of yourself is beyond me.

 

[lowecur]

Why you come here and continue to make a fool of yourself is beyond me.

Cuz I like getting a rise from emptyheaded sourpusses like yourself.

Now if you want to take the position that SWA would be more than happy to extend the current contract for another 5 years, then stand up and be heard. I say they will stand firm on an overall compensation reduction of 20%. My guess is SWAPA leadership won't budge for at least 2 years, and will finally be forced to present a TA to the membership for ratification by the end of 2008. It will be voted down and the existing leadership will receive a no confidence vote from the hardline membership and removed. Just another predictable soap opera from this disfunctional family known as the airline business.

imp:

 

[canyonblue737]

Cuz I like getting a rise from emptyheaded sourpusses like yourself.

Now if you want to take the position that SWA would be more than happy to extend the current contract for another 5 years, then stand up and be heard. I say they will stand firm on an overall compensation reduction of 20%. My guess is SWAPA leadership won't budge for at least 2 years, and will finally be forced to present a TA to the membership for ratification by the end of 2008. It will be voted down and the existing leadership will receive a no confidence vote from the hardline membership and removed. Just another predictable soap opera from this disfunctional family known as the airline business.

imp:

The mistakes that you and others make in regards to SWA, over and over again, is applying lessons from other carriers and assuming they apply. They don't. If you don't get SWA is different, then and now, you don't get SWA.

Watch and learn this Section 6, everyone has their vocal minorities but the huge majority of SWA pilots still feel the LUV.

 

[Dangerkitty]

Cuz I like getting a rise from emptyheaded sourpusses like yourself.

Empty headed? Let me remind you that you are the moron who thought that when pilots here were talking about Cat II and Cat III approaches, you asked why we were talking about landing in hurricaines.

You have no idea what you are talking about. You don't know anything about the airline business.

Please guy back to your cubicle and hunt for your red stapler.

 

[TexaSWA]

1. you guys want your cake and eat it to.

2. picked up a ton of newly hired sourpusses the last 5 years from other airlines that are union hardasses.


3. Wait until they drop the 100 seat rate bomb on you guys. The word adversarial will be on the tip of everyone's tongue at that pt.

imp:

1. You are wrong. The "we need a raise" guys are an extreme minority, and not even a vocal one. I've yet to meet one on line.

2. You are wrong. Those guys get turned down. We hire furloughed guys, but the "sourpusses" are weeded out. Those that get through have a quick attitude change when they find out how it is to be treated well for the first time in their carreer.

3. You're taking a flyer here and hoping for a hit. I'll take one too since the topic hasn't been addressed. Same payrates for smaller equipment. Not worth splitting the pilot group over something that probably will not happen anyway. After all, if the company decides on smaller A/C, it will be because it is more cost effective, not less. I doubt they will see an improvement in efficiency as a reason for a pay cut.

 

[TexaSWA]

...existing leadership will receive a no confidence vote from the hardline membership and removed...
imp:

hardline membership? You're not at all familiar with our history. Or our membership.

 

[Saabslime]

Maybe you guys can negotiate to have the company pay for employee parking. I was just on the employee bus and there's a big notice for SWA employees to fill out the form to have parking fees deducted from your paycheck........... What a joke

 

[firstthird]

Oh yes, the horror of paying for parking. I'm sure that I'm a bad person but I see the parking issue through the lens of total compensation. Traditionally, anything the pilots negotiate (401K, duty hour rigs) later on get thrown into all the other work groups contracts. Which is fine and as it should be. But with that history, how much is the 35 dollars a month really worth? I'd rather have more hard pay and less socialistic baby sitting. We don't get a uniform allowance either. If we got parking and a uniform allowance; it would mean less hard money. The company cares about cost per employee, not how we get it. Some guys don't use parking (public transport) and if we got a uniform allowance, we'd all feel the need to use all of it every year, even if our uniforms were in good condition.

So, if your company pays your parking, I'm happy for you. I'm also happy that my company does not. I had about all I could take of the paternalistic, we make sure you are provided for in all areas, crap in the military and surely don't need it at SWA.

There are definitely some pilots here that get fired up about it. 'Dallas guys get to park at the GO for free. It isn't fair.' No it isn't, they also get to have the crappiest relative seniority in the system and more than their share of texas two step days. Fair trade in my book.

 

[Saabslime]

Sorry, but when a company makes you pay to park where you work, that's just plain a$$ cheap no matter how you slice it. And even McDonalds provides a uniform for their employees at no cost......

 

[FlyBarneyJets]

...the only reason you're not hurting right now is their smarts. And you will thank them for your good fortune by sitting on what you got till the hedges fully unwind and the company starts taking it up the arz.

This thing will drag on for years, cuz that's just the way things work in this business. SWAPA has prided itself in being able to work with mgt over the years, but this membership is not your fathers membership. It's picked up a ton of newly hired sourpusses the last 5 years from other airlines that are union hardasses.

Wait until they drop the 100 seat rate bomb on you guys. The word adversarial will be on the tip of everyone's tongue at that pt.

imp:

You haven't a single clue. That's obvious.

Sure, our management is smart. But I've got news for you. Their smarts keeps our employees interested in coming to work. Without the employees we have who are willing to work as hard as they do, this company is just another airline...even WITH smart management. Pilots are included. Show me another group of pilots with so many within its rank-and-file that routinely (and voluntarily) time out every month.

Most of the newly-hired here have an attitude similar to those who've gone before them. Being that you DON'T WORK FOR THIS AIRLINE, how can you judge our pilot group's attitude?

There. I've fed the troll. Maybe he'll leave us alone for a good long while.

 

[OffHot]

Sorry, but when a company makes you pay to park where you work, that's just plain a$$ cheap no matter how you slice it. And even McDonalds provides a uniform for their employees at no cost......

So I guess a pay cut is a much better solution. Based on your banner you work for US AIR or one of its regional affiliates, give me a break. I agree, I'll pay for my parking and work for a company that lives up to the contract we signed.

 

[Flycatcher99]

1. You are wrong. The "we need a raise" guys are an extreme minority, and not even a vocal one. I've yet to meet one on line.

I'll jump on the lowecur dogpile by seconding the comment above. Lowecur, you're completely oblivious to the reality at SWA if you think you can so obtusely stereotype the pilots here. I have yet to fly with one (1) captain who has said that we need to negotiate a raise. Every person I have met would be completely content to continue status quo, compensation-wise. A continued small COL increase is the most that I've heard bandied about, just as we have now.

And for your second stereotyping comment regarding the "tons" of sourpusses that SWA has hired, this just goes to show the depths of your ignorance. I suppose you mean that many of our hires are spoiled furloughees from other carriers. First of all, there are not that many furloughees here, but of the ones I've met, they are thankful for a job, and not just a job, but one of the most enviable ones in the industry. Second, you discount the true majority of our hires, who are either military folk who are certainly not molded in the vain of "sourpuss", or ex-commuter pilots, who have traditionally worked at places that didn't value them or treat them well, comparatively speaking, so they are thankful to be at a place who cares so well for them.

You really put your foot in your mouth with this post.

 

[Saabslime]

So I guess a pay cut is a much better solution

Are you telling me that SWA is in such bad financial health that for the company to provide employee parking would necessitate a pay cut?! You sir give ME a break!

 

[Purpled]

Are you telling me that SWA is in such bad financial health that for the company to provide employee parking would necessitate a pay cut?! You sir give ME a break!

No, what he is telling you is that he'd rather have 50 bucks vs. a 50 dollar parking voucher.

 

[Dangerkitty]

Maybe you guys can negotiate to have the company pay for employee parking. I was just on the employee bus and there's a big notice for SWA employees to fill out the form to have parking fees deducted from your paycheck........... What a joke

Yeah, I would rather work for your company and have my parking paid for vs flying for SWA and paying $30 a month in parking fees that are tax deductible.

Lets see: Getting paid well over six figures, having the best benefits in the industry and having to pay for my own parking.

OR: Getting paid slave labor wages, having terrible benefits and having my parking paid for.

Yeah it's a no brainer Saabslime's company is the better chocie.

 

[OffHot]

Are you telling me that SWA is in such bad financial health that for the company to provide employee parking would necessitate a pay cut?! You sir give ME a break!

No what I am telling you is that I dont care about parking fees. Maybe that is what you must bargin for because your company has dictated everything else of importance to you. Either by threats of BR or by some judge who thinks he understands our business. I dont wish regression by anyone in this industry, it hurts us all, but to flame on SWA about uniforms or parking, when other pilots would just be happy to quit taking paycuts is absurd. We dont have the perfect contract, we know that, that is why we decided to open section 6, but it also isn't that bad. I'm sure with your contract, paid parking and uniform expenses, is much better than ours, so we now have something to model our new one after.

 

[TexaSWA]

Are you telling me that SWA is in such bad financial health that for the company to provide employee parking would necessitate a pay cut?! You sir give ME a break!

If your negotiation comittee is going to waste time on something as trivial as parking fees, it is because they are unable to get anything of any real value and are grasping at straws trying to look as if they have some control over the outcome.

How does one segway from negotiating the intricacies of a multi million dollar 401k and profit sharing fund, to $30 a month to pay for parking. I dont think it can be done with a straight face.

Its the difference between Baccarat and nikel slots.

Im sure its hard to understand from the point of reference of a commuter pilot, but hopefully you'll get a chance to understand one day.

 

[skiandsurf]

Does SWA make all airport employees pay for parking? And what about the people who work at HQs, I assume they get to park for free.

 

[TexaSWA]

Does SWA make all airport employees pay for parking? And what about the people who work at HQs, I assume they get to park for free.

SWA doesnt make anyone pay for parking. The companies that own the lots do.

The people who work at the GO (HQ) park there free. Crews that live in dallas and commute to other bases can park there free, too, and take a shuttle. Dallas based crews park free at the Parking Spot; SWA owns the land.

It is different at other bases where Southwest doesnt own the land. The Parking Spot is always half price, but thats for all airlines.

 

[Saabslime]

You SWA koolaid kooks can't see the forest through the trees. "Yeah we have to pay for parking and uniforms, etc. but look at our hourly rates!" Forget the fact that the company works you like borrowed mules to gain the productivity needed to afford those rates. You're W2's may look good but let's face it, you fly regional type schedules........some QOL. I'll put our scheduling and hours of service sections up against yours anyday.

 

[firstthird]

I'm not here to compare W-2s or sport cars or other 'mine is bigger than yours' items.

I made an idealogical argument that getting more money is better than negotiating penny-ante stuff like parking fees. SWA apparently thinks that their pilots are big boys and girls and we can replace our uniforms when necessary. Many companies that pay for uniforms do so because management thinks their employees will go around looking like homeless people in stained/treadbare shirts without a use or lose allowance. (speaking of which, Landerwood is overdue for some business from this FO)

It is nice that you are very happy with your

scheduling and hours of service sections

People at SWA are pretty happy with ours too. 18 or 19 days off a month is not too bad. Not everyone gets that, depends on what you're bidding for and your seniority, of course. In fact, I'd say that most pilots are only looking for incremental improvements because we are happy. Our contract is old (12 years and counting) and needs to be cleaned up, but what it doesn't need is 'paid parking' or 'uniform allowance.' If your 30 bucks a month for parking makes you the better union represented pilot, that is sweet for you.

In case you haven't been paying attention, the 'jacking the house' theory of airline pilot negotiating has been overtaken by the 'destroy the house and start over' theory of contract negotiations, thus the DAL +1% or UAL +1% doesn't really apply. Besides, our pay system really isn't like the rest and that makes straight hourly comparisons difficult at best and misleading in most cases.

 

[TexaSWA]

I'll put our scheduling and hours of service sections up against yours anyday.

Avg days off last bid in MDW: 17.17
Avg duty period length: 8.5 hrs

 

[scoreboard]

Sorry, but when a company makes you pay to park where you work, that's just plain a$$ cheap no matter how you slice it. And even McDonalds provides a uniform for their employees at no cost......

No, my company doesn't make me pay a penny, PHX parking does.

 

[skiandsurf]

No, my company doesn't make me pay a penny, PHX parking does.

I guess my company doesnt require me to go to work, my wife does.

 

[scoreboard]

You SWA koolaid kooks can't see the forest through the trees. "Yeah we have to pay for parking and uniforms, etc. but look at our hourly rates!" Forget the fact that the company works you like borrowed mules to gain the productivity needed to afford those rates. You're W2's may look good but let's face it, you fly regional type schedules........some QOL. I'll put our scheduling and hours of service sections up against yours anyday.

Funny, your avatar states "Dysfunctional", that pretty much says it all.

Regional schedule? Oh, so regional guys fly 3 on 4 off weekdays after 18 months on property averaging 8-9 hour workday, I didn't know that, good for them.

What, burned out from your High speed or Stand up? Oh, we don't do either of those, not even close.

 

[scoreboard]

I guess my company doesnt require me to go to work, my wife does.

How'd you know?

fishy looking sidway thingy

 

[canyonblue]

Saabslime, get a life.uke: I could care less if someone posts their "opinions" on this board but you have a real-hard on against Southwest. I have no idea how America West hired you. You don't even have meaningful dialog on any Southwest thread, so do us a favor and stay off SWA threads. We get it, you don't like Southwest. No go find a little unicorn Johnny.

And Gup is right, anything other than COLA IS a paycut, please pay attention guys.