SWA Classes

[Jolly Roger]

I must admit I have tried not to pay the pool list much attention, knowing it makes this whole thing seem to drag even more... but just submitted my name to the list to help it be more accurate, albeit way down the list.

I was looking at it and noticed the breaks in numbers with folks squeezed in towards the beginning with no number... am presuming those were added by buds starting class. I suppose it would be nice to know the true # in the pool; it sure looks like it has the potential to be fairly sizeable.

I look at a guy like Slug, for example and it seems like he ought to have been in the last class... just trying to make sense of the system...

 

[OPIE01]

What's with the Bad Vibes

Mooseman are you #160ish on the informal Poolie list?

Were you just calling JB to be calling her, or were you called to do an update or something?

All you nay Sayers are killing those of us still over here in the Desert. I am very, very, very fortunate to be in the pool. But there are still dudes sweating it out in the 'STAN and the big Sand Box who are just waiting to get back and submit a package or update to get an interview.
It's bad enough being away from Momma and the Boys, but SHREADING ANY HOPE OF GETTING THE CALL from SWA in the foreseeable future does not make it better.
If the goal was to DEMORALIZE aspiring SWA pilots, I believe you did a very good job of it. I for one feel about .5” tall right now. I think I’ll go get a kiss and hug from my wife and kids, OH YEA I CAN’T, THEY ARE 10,000 MILES AWAY, SLEEPING AND DREAMING ABOUT THE DAY I RETURN.
I personally would appreciate it if you have bad news, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF.
This is Chat Bulletin Board, we are not making Company Policy. So who cares if we are living a pipe dream. I don’t believe anyone has ever sold their house and moved to Dallas because of anything that was said here. But I bet there are some dudes who would have made great SWA pilots who are going to take other options instead of waiting.
Why do you think Vietnam POWs survived for 7 years in captivity. THEY HAD HOPE OF FREEDOM, HOPE TO SEE LOVED ONES, FAITH IN GOD, AND HOPE OF WHAT EVER IT TOOK TO SURVIVE.
If you think you have insider information and it is not good, but you have this burning desire to pop some bubbles. Will you please post it in a gentile manner. Like “I’m not for sure but I heard” or “there is a slight chance the Sky is going to fall”. Please think before you hit ENTER.
Personally, I was happy with living day to day in the HOPE of seeing the Classes start again and drain the pool. My days are much better when I can say, “Well it might not be today, but maybe tomorrow.” Now because of your posts I have to figure what to do with my off time over here in the Desert. Before I read this thread, I looked forward to getting onto the internet and seeing what the latest Rumors, Hopes and Dreams were. Now thanks to you guys I may dread logging onto Flightinfo.com in the fear of seeing more BAD NEWS you feel you must pass on.
I am only authorized to call my wife and kids for two 15 Minute periods each week and I have already used up this Option for this week. Thanks guys, I think I will go to my bunk and take a nap and maybe I’ll dream about her telling me “It’s all OK, we’ll just have to deal with the uncertainty a few extra month, no problems.”
It’s one thing when Uncle Sam says for the 10th year in a row, “Boys, we’ll have you home for Christmas”, when they have no intention of it or have no control of it, it gets very tiresome. But when on this Chat line someone says, “I heard from someone, that somebody said: 3 Classes a month, with 50 newhires in each class for the foreseeable future”, you get a kick out of it and if it doesn’t happen you forget about it. As I said before, I bet no one every sold their house or quit their job because of rumors of hiring or interviewing.
I remember 19.5 years ago while I was at UH-60 mechanic school. One of the other Privates heard that I wanted to apply for WO Helicopter Pilot Training. He came up to me and said “Don’t apply now, there is a 2 year waiting list to go to pilot training.” I looked at him and said, “Well if I wait 2 years to apply, then it will be 4 years before I would get to go. But if I apply Now, I’ll be at the end of the list and get to go in 2 years.” Point is, he felt it was his duty to tell me the Bad news. Others listened to his Bad news and never applied. I applied and was in Pilot training 6 months later.
What am I saying? Even if this other Private had never said anything to me I would have kept doing the things I was doing. But others stopped. It is not costing SWA any money for us to spread rumors on this Website (if porn on the web is legal then Rumors of growth and expansion of and an airline in these trying times are also legal). If anything it is helping SWA keep pilots who would accept a job elsewhere because they decided not to wait. Pilots who would have been great SWA employees.
If you are going to be a Nay Sayer and feel it is your duty to bust my pipe dream, then please think before you type and give us dreamers an easy let down or make it sound like a rumor.
Thanks, I will go take my Nap now dream about my wife and kids.

 

[flynlion]

Opie01
Feel better now? Look, you guys do important work over there. Tell your buds flying the line, living in tents, walking 271 paces to the latrine, that we appreciate what they do every day.
Then tell them to quit whining. If I read your profile right, most of those guys are flying F-16s. How many other guys out there would love to fly an F-16 just once. Once! You guys do it day in and day out. There are tons of other guys who have the honor to serve in the military as pilots, but not fighters. So ask your buds, "would you rather be in the desert flying F-16s? Or heavies? Or be stuck back home at a desk job wearing short sleeve shirts, and not even able to get out there to drop a bomb on the bad guys.
I know it's tough to feel envied when your covered in dust, in 140 degree ramp temperature, working 16 hour days and gone from home for 90 days only to find out you've just been extended, AND SWA is not interviewing.
But, I say again, you are envied by many, they make TV shows and movies about what you do, you are appreciated, and you do important work every day. You and your boys get the spotlight and represent a ton of young troops, with much less glamous jobs or opportunities that also are far from home, sleeping in a tent, walking 271 paces to the latrine and just got extended. Only they can't even dream of flying F-16s or applying to SWA.
I'll step off the soap box, but please tell your buds they do important work. They need to be motivated and focused when they launch with live weapons in the "stans" or Iraq.
Patience. Things will work out. An upturn in the market (already happening) could changes things for the positive just as quickly.

 

[Anaconda]

Re: Reality

They also interviewed a small number of folks in April in conjunction with the equal opportunity type rating scholarship program. This unprecented interviewing added another 350-400 folks to the hired pool.

WHAT is that about???

 

[JayhawkDude]

Possibility

Anyone consider this? Looks like the pilot contract extension is going to go through, but the mechanics' arbitration is still looming. SWA may be trying to show minimal or no growth and paint a negative future prior to starting out in what could be a very costly trip to the mediation board.

Opie, I've been following your story since day one and I remember you from CBM. I just want to say the beginning of the thread was simpy fact- no new classes in August. That's simply what is, for better or worse. I can understand being frustrated with the negative analysis, but I think most of us want all the facts they can get- good, bad, or otherwise. There are life decisions we have to make based on the facts. If someone can't keep the faith based only on the best guesses of guys on the outside looking in, maybe he's not the guy SWA is looking for. Maybe? And Opie, thanks for gettin' it done over there.

 

[OPIE01]

I guess I rambled to much.

In simple terms what I meant to say:

As my mother used to tell me and my Brother: "If you can't say anything nice. Don't say anything at all" Then the soap would be inserted into my mouth.

By the way, I am filling an staff ALO tour (none flying) with the Army. I don't have to walk to the latrine, it is where ever I stand. But if you want I will walk 271 paces the next time I relieve myself. It might help keep the flies down.
And the buds I am talking about are KC-135 and Navy Dudes on the Ground at the 'Stan, and Predetor pilots. I don't know any of the F-16 dudes that fly at that Thar Flying Machine Base. I only have Army guys around me.

________________________________________
The weather is here, I wish you were beautiful.

 

[OPIE01]

Wow I am glad I have waited to eat

Wow,
If I would have known I would have started this much conversation. I would have started last week typing.

I guess I watched Kelly's Heroes to many times. The part where Donald Southerland told the Hardcore Sgt. "Watch the Negitive Vibes Man, you'll ruin the party for all of us."

This is great. I am enjoying the discussion. Only 5 more hours till bed time.

 

[Gumbydammit]

Take it easy, Leonard

Let's just remember that things are never as bad or as good as it seems...it wasn't that good in 1999/2000 when everyone was hiring and it ain't that bad now. SWA is NEGOTIATING right now and look at the panic they are causing...they are smart...they love their employees, but they are also in competition with them as a union...they know the pilots and the mechs have all DEPENDED on growth and now they are subtly taking it away...this is negotiation. If the pilots sign this they will still be well below their peers for pay...this is a huge competitive advantage for SWA and they will absolutely grab market share when it's signed. Opie, hang on man, many of us feel/have felt your pain...don't worry...SWA is going to expand. This is why they fence so much money - so they can buy jets cheap during the worst of times and be the first ones out of the gates when they all start expanding...just like they have done in the past! Don't believe everything you read here...that could be anyone...EVEN someone from management...stirring the pot and painting a negative picture. This time next month, the votes will all be in and the vibes will be positive...you've got to believe that. Jets are flying pretty **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** full all over the country and the economy WILL recover...it always does. People in the US are smarter and work harder than anywhere...we will be back and so will SWA and you guys will all be riding the wave!

 

[tredding@swa]

WOCD paid off...?

Hey OP,

I remember when they all thought I was crazy for pushing the issue, I applied for flight school in AIT.... everyone said I had to wait til' I arrived at my 1st assignment - THEN wait 1 year to apply. Well, 6 weeks after graduation from Eustis, PFC Tredding was a snowbird @ Mother Rucker!!

My pilot, however, us that after all you did to get away from the MREs & BDUs.... look where you end up winding down your career, can't help but see the irony & sorta get a laugh out of that one!?! No offense.... I WILL gladly buy the 1st round when you get home... hurry back, be safe & most of all - T H A N K S for being there.

Best Regards - Tredding

 

[tredding@swa]

my POINT...

That would be my POINT,,,, not "my pilot".... jeeze, wish I could type??????

ALSO - sorry to have started a new thread... I HATE when I do that!!!!

 

[Mooseman]

Hey Opie01,
Yes that is me in the 160ish range of the pool.......and yes, I was just calling Jennifer for my monthly chat to see how things were going. She told me that she had just been told by training...."no classes for August". Sad but true.

 

[SentryIP]

Monthly Contact

Hey Poolies,

I call JB once a month just to chat and update work phone numbers, availability date, retirement date, yada, yada, yada, whether I need to or not. I think most of us in the pool do the same. Fly safe.

 

[Rob Beeks]

Sorry for the bad vibes...

Opie (and all):

I imagine your first reply was targeting me. As you know, I am not one to say things which are not true. It is my job to be honest and objective -- not to sugarcoat things. I trust you don't really believe I was trying to "demoralize" anyone.

I debated whether to post the info and my analysis for a long time. After numerous (i.e., dozens) recent queries from clients in the pool and future clients awaiting an interview, it is a fact that a lot of folks ARE basing important decisions on airline hiring trends. I have one client (current airline pilot) who sold his house in Phoenix shortly after getting hired by SWA. He and his wife had already been househunting in Baltimore and SWA training was in full swing. Well, immediately after signing the papers for the sale, he gets a call from SWA that training is suspended for the foreseeable future. He now gets to commute to Phoenix from Baltimore. Many other folks are making important decisions, such as whether to buy a house, where to move, whether to sign a military extension, whether to search for/accept other flying positions, etc.

So even though some have not yet had to make important decisions affecting their family or financial situations, many more have found themselves doing so. It is important that these decisions are informed, and not based on bad info and rumors.

Is the sky falling? NO! Although 6 months to a year is an eternity to pilots in the pool, on furlough, awaiting military separation, etc., it is a blip in the turbulent airline world. For those of you who prepped with me, you remember me always saying that the "only certainty in the airline industry is uncertainty!" Will SWA recover "soon" and begin unprecented hiring? Yes! Unfortunately, the definition of "soon" is not two weeks or two months.

I pray that I am wrong...

For those of you wondering about being in a non-flying situation right now, here are the words straight from the mouth of the Phoenix chief pilot: "You will not be removed from the hired pool for not being current, but being current will certaintly help you do better in SWA training."

In addition, I thoroughly discussed the situation where someone is removed from the hired pool. Reasons given for removing someone from the pool include dishonesty in any area of the hiring process (interview, paperwork, etc.), a situation occuring which now prevents the person from meeting SWA hiring criteria, or more than one SWA pilot voicing extreme disapproval of the potential new-hire.

To further explain a possible misunderstanding from my previous post, hiring for ALL interviews in 2002 added between 350-400 folks to the pool. The "type-rating scholarship" interviews only accounted for 15-20. Only a handful of free type ratings are awarded annually. Many of the folks interviewing for the scholarships are not given scholarships, but are added to the hired pool contingent on paying for their own type rating (just like everyone else). BTW, these "scholarships" are part of a program sponsored in part by OBAP and Women in Aviation.

I hope this info helps some of you. I try to monitor this forum when I can, and just want to keep anyone from making an important decision based on unreliable info. I am not trying to bust anyone's bubble.

Best of luck to all.

 

[SentryIP]

Thanks

Rob,

Your comments carry a lot of weight on this forum because of your very successful consulting business (when Rob talks, people listen!). I hope you didn't take the flurry of questions negatively. More than anything, all the poolies just wanted more clarification because it, seemingly, your news came out of nowhere. We all appreciate you frequenting this forum and providing any "insider" information and your perspective on SWA and the airlines industry. Take care and fly safe!

 

[w8n4swa]

Ditto's...

Rob,

Thanks for your honesty & your thoughts on the hiring "pause". As one of your graduates, I'm always glad to hear what you have to say.

God Bless,

W8n4swa

 

[Red Baron]

I know many of you have been in the pool a while. I am down at the drain!! The good thing is we are waiting on a GREAT airline. A dose of reality helps to put things in perspective. I hope it does turn around quick, and classes continue sooner than later. I was introduced to this forum by another friend in the pool. It is good to have voices heard and the SWA poolie list as well. I know we all have different situations now, but one day, we will be with the best. Take care and happy flying.

Regards,

Red Baron

 

[AvLawyer]

Re: Monthly Contact

Hi, Rob -- as you seem pretty well "plugged in" to the source, I'll direct a couple of questions to you, but anyone else is free to chime in. I'm not a poolie, but lurk regularly due to my interests 1) on behalf of friends and loved ones, and 2) as a member of the business aviation community, and am wondering about a couple of things.

1) I'm concerned about the issue of individual SWA pilots blacklisting poolies, especially those who have invested significant $$ in their 737 types in reliance on statements by SWA -- I don't see that these SWA pilots (or anyone but the official representative of a former employer, for that matter) are in any way privileged (free) to distribute negative information to SWA regarding these individuals, and are risking some serious liability for defamation. I won't go into the legal elements, but do you know whether the company is indemnifying them for this?

2) Re: keeping current, do you have any sense of whether SWA is aware of the strong hiring prejudices against people with 737 types among the business/general aviation community? I know a number of people having great difficulty getting jobs because 1) they are furloughed, 2) their status as airline applicants was advertised to the entire bizav community by PRIA (records) requests and background checks, and/or 3) they have 737 types. From my travels on the NBAA bulletin boards, there is no secret that these folks are non grata, due to the obvious economic and legal concerns of chief pilots faced with either wasting their FSI/SF training funds or trying to bind newhires to lengthy training contracts. Also, trying to conceal one's status or ratings from prospective employers (as has been suggested on Flightinfo and elsewhere) can result in a quick dismissal or withdrawal of an employment offer, and create a new enemy or negative reference in the industry -- would that be "dishonesty" sufficient to drown a poolie in SWA's book?

3) Well, ok, it's three things. I'm wondering whether SWA applies an ironclad, systematic selection process or whether it uses discretion in creating a diverse class out of civilian/military, younger/older, etc. I would think that delaying the hiring of over-40 candidates because they are over 40, even if the purpose is to create a diverse class, could possibly violate the ADEA. Similarly, intentionally delaying the hiring of ex-military could run afoul of USERRA (veteran's benefits act). Obviously, no poolie is going to risk his chance by bringing a case, but EEOC or DOJ (for the vets) could do it, possibly as a class action.

The interaction of all of the above factors could lead to situations where people who are trying to keep flying while waiting for extended periods could, over time, run into problems with blacklisting or increased exposure to accidents/incidents/certificate actions while flying in more risky short-term jobs.

Hope I'm not picking a fight here -- I think these are fears that may have crossed the minds of some of you before. Thanks, looking forward to replies.

 

[Maynard]

What???

Hey Rob, I too would rather hear the hard truth than a bunch of rumors and false hope for those that need to plan their life. Keep up the excellent work!!!
AvLawyer, I'm positive that SWA has all the bases covered, with an extremely talented legal crew on staff.

 

[tredding@swa]

Thanks Rob...

Yes, some of us have made LARGE decisions based on the fact that we were(are) have, and I quote... "successfully completed the application and interview phases at Southwest Airlines."

Due to reasons of anonymity, I can't give exact details. However, I did sell a home & relocated my family to a SWA domicle. It was a sound decision based on the "hope" of being in a SWA class sooner, than later. Still a decision that my wife supports 100%.

Our life is slightly complicated now, due to the wait for a class date. But, WE made the decision to do this and do not regret doing so. We will just have to deal with the life we have created and WHEN my call comes in from a Chief Pilot, the "victory" will be that much sweeter!!!!!

Life has no guarantees, being an aviator/professional pilot has less than normal even.... SO - NO WHINING here, just glad to know that I will be flying the line with the rest of you, someday... at the best airline in the industry!

One more thing.... welcome aboard to all of those who are recipients of the scholarships, you deserve what you have been so fortunate to have won!!!!

Have a great day everyone! Sincerely - Tredding

 

[T1bubba]

AvLawyer,

You mentioned several of your concerns. Personally I am rather concerned about frivolous lawsuits aimed at my future employer. May I recommend you contact the SWA legal department in Dallas for any inquiries into the hiring process. I'm sure they'll be more than happy to help you.