SWA Classes

[Mooseman]

Hey Opie01,
Yes that is me in the 160ish range of the pool.......and yes, I was just calling Jennifer for my monthly chat to see how things were going. She told me that she had just been told by training...."no classes for August". Sad but true.

 

[SentryIP]

Monthly Contact

Hey Poolies,

I call JB once a month just to chat and update work phone numbers, availability date, retirement date, yada, yada, yada, whether I need to or not. I think most of us in the pool do the same. Fly safe.

 

[Rob Beeks]

Sorry for the bad vibes...

Opie (and all):

I imagine your first reply was targeting me. As you know, I am not one to say things which are not true. It is my job to be honest and objective -- not to sugarcoat things. I trust you don't really believe I was trying to "demoralize" anyone.

I debated whether to post the info and my analysis for a long time. After numerous (i.e., dozens) recent queries from clients in the pool and future clients awaiting an interview, it is a fact that a lot of folks ARE basing important decisions on airline hiring trends. I have one client (current airline pilot) who sold his house in Phoenix shortly after getting hired by SWA. He and his wife had already been househunting in Baltimore and SWA training was in full swing. Well, immediately after signing the papers for the sale, he gets a call from SWA that training is suspended for the foreseeable future. He now gets to commute to Phoenix from Baltimore. Many other folks are making important decisions, such as whether to buy a house, where to move, whether to sign a military extension, whether to search for/accept other flying positions, etc.

So even though some have not yet had to make important decisions affecting their family or financial situations, many more have found themselves doing so. It is important that these decisions are informed, and not based on bad info and rumors.

Is the sky falling? NO! Although 6 months to a year is an eternity to pilots in the pool, on furlough, awaiting military separation, etc., it is a blip in the turbulent airline world. For those of you who prepped with me, you remember me always saying that the "only certainty in the airline industry is uncertainty!" Will SWA recover "soon" and begin unprecented hiring? Yes! Unfortunately, the definition of "soon" is not two weeks or two months.

I pray that I am wrong...

For those of you wondering about being in a non-flying situation right now, here are the words straight from the mouth of the Phoenix chief pilot: "You will not be removed from the hired pool for not being current, but being current will certaintly help you do better in SWA training."

In addition, I thoroughly discussed the situation where someone is removed from the hired pool. Reasons given for removing someone from the pool include dishonesty in any area of the hiring process (interview, paperwork, etc.), a situation occuring which now prevents the person from meeting SWA hiring criteria, or more than one SWA pilot voicing extreme disapproval of the potential new-hire.

To further explain a possible misunderstanding from my previous post, hiring for ALL interviews in 2002 added between 350-400 folks to the pool. The "type-rating scholarship" interviews only accounted for 15-20. Only a handful of free type ratings are awarded annually. Many of the folks interviewing for the scholarships are not given scholarships, but are added to the hired pool contingent on paying for their own type rating (just like everyone else). BTW, these "scholarships" are part of a program sponsored in part by OBAP and Women in Aviation.

I hope this info helps some of you. I try to monitor this forum when I can, and just want to keep anyone from making an important decision based on unreliable info. I am not trying to bust anyone's bubble.

Best of luck to all.

 

[SentryIP]

Thanks

Rob,

Your comments carry a lot of weight on this forum because of your very successful consulting business (when Rob talks, people listen!). I hope you didn't take the flurry of questions negatively. More than anything, all the poolies just wanted more clarification because it, seemingly, your news came out of nowhere. We all appreciate you frequenting this forum and providing any "insider" information and your perspective on SWA and the airlines industry. Take care and fly safe!

 

[w8n4swa]

Ditto's...

Rob,

Thanks for your honesty & your thoughts on the hiring "pause". As one of your graduates, I'm always glad to hear what you have to say.

God Bless,

W8n4swa

 

[Red Baron]

I know many of you have been in the pool a while. I am down at the drain!! The good thing is we are waiting on a GREAT airline. A dose of reality helps to put things in perspective. I hope it does turn around quick, and classes continue sooner than later. I was introduced to this forum by another friend in the pool. It is good to have voices heard and the SWA poolie list as well. I know we all have different situations now, but one day, we will be with the best. Take care and happy flying.

Regards,

Red Baron

 

[AvLawyer]

Re: Monthly Contact

Hi, Rob -- as you seem pretty well "plugged in" to the source, I'll direct a couple of questions to you, but anyone else is free to chime in. I'm not a poolie, but lurk regularly due to my interests 1) on behalf of friends and loved ones, and 2) as a member of the business aviation community, and am wondering about a couple of things.

1) I'm concerned about the issue of individual SWA pilots blacklisting poolies, especially those who have invested significant $$ in their 737 types in reliance on statements by SWA -- I don't see that these SWA pilots (or anyone but the official representative of a former employer, for that matter) are in any way privileged (free) to distribute negative information to SWA regarding these individuals, and are risking some serious liability for defamation. I won't go into the legal elements, but do you know whether the company is indemnifying them for this?

2) Re: keeping current, do you have any sense of whether SWA is aware of the strong hiring prejudices against people with 737 types among the business/general aviation community? I know a number of people having great difficulty getting jobs because 1) they are furloughed, 2) their status as airline applicants was advertised to the entire bizav community by PRIA (records) requests and background checks, and/or 3) they have 737 types. From my travels on the NBAA bulletin boards, there is no secret that these folks are non grata, due to the obvious economic and legal concerns of chief pilots faced with either wasting their FSI/SF training funds or trying to bind newhires to lengthy training contracts. Also, trying to conceal one's status or ratings from prospective employers (as has been suggested on Flightinfo and elsewhere) can result in a quick dismissal or withdrawal of an employment offer, and create a new enemy or negative reference in the industry -- would that be "dishonesty" sufficient to drown a poolie in SWA's book?

3) Well, ok, it's three things. I'm wondering whether SWA applies an ironclad, systematic selection process or whether it uses discretion in creating a diverse class out of civilian/military, younger/older, etc. I would think that delaying the hiring of over-40 candidates because they are over 40, even if the purpose is to create a diverse class, could possibly violate the ADEA. Similarly, intentionally delaying the hiring of ex-military could run afoul of USERRA (veteran's benefits act). Obviously, no poolie is going to risk his chance by bringing a case, but EEOC or DOJ (for the vets) could do it, possibly as a class action.

The interaction of all of the above factors could lead to situations where people who are trying to keep flying while waiting for extended periods could, over time, run into problems with blacklisting or increased exposure to accidents/incidents/certificate actions while flying in more risky short-term jobs.

Hope I'm not picking a fight here -- I think these are fears that may have crossed the minds of some of you before. Thanks, looking forward to replies.

 

[Maynard]

What???

Hey Rob, I too would rather hear the hard truth than a bunch of rumors and false hope for those that need to plan their life. Keep up the excellent work!!!
AvLawyer, I'm positive that SWA has all the bases covered, with an extremely talented legal crew on staff.

 

[tredding@swa]

Thanks Rob...

Yes, some of us have made LARGE decisions based on the fact that we were(are) have, and I quote... "successfully completed the application and interview phases at Southwest Airlines."

Due to reasons of anonymity, I can't give exact details. However, I did sell a home & relocated my family to a SWA domicle. It was a sound decision based on the "hope" of being in a SWA class sooner, than later. Still a decision that my wife supports 100%.

Our life is slightly complicated now, due to the wait for a class date. But, WE made the decision to do this and do not regret doing so. We will just have to deal with the life we have created and WHEN my call comes in from a Chief Pilot, the "victory" will be that much sweeter!!!!!

Life has no guarantees, being an aviator/professional pilot has less than normal even.... SO - NO WHINING here, just glad to know that I will be flying the line with the rest of you, someday... at the best airline in the industry!

One more thing.... welcome aboard to all of those who are recipients of the scholarships, you deserve what you have been so fortunate to have won!!!!

Have a great day everyone! Sincerely - Tredding

 

[T1bubba]

AvLawyer,

You mentioned several of your concerns. Personally I am rather concerned about frivolous lawsuits aimed at my future employer. May I recommend you contact the SWA legal department in Dallas for any inquiries into the hiring process. I'm sure they'll be more than happy to help you.