SWA buys ATA

[FlyBoeingJets]

Deleted

 

[BVT94]

ATA Buyout.........Why buy the cow when the milk is free?

 

[General Lee]

I have recently flown with a few of the ATA guys that got hired with us. Great guys to work with and we need more! It would be great to bring the guys back that have been furloughed.

Jim,

Maybe buying ATA will fill the gap with all of the close to age 60 guys retiring in the next 18-24 months. With the APA and ALPA against the age increase, maybe the debate will last 2-3 years.... Hey, when do you retire?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[atafan]

I SWA check airman buddy of mine said that he didn't believe SWA was developing an ETOPS program at this time.

Any intell?

 

[Pickle]

I hope its true. I would be honored to have the ATA Pilots join Southwest Airlines!

Well, at the risk of starting the previously mentioned seniority list wars that Capt Seth mentioned....

IF IF IF IF IF IF this were to occur, what would SWA do about the FEFOs and FECAs??

What about the guys who don't have a 737 type rating??

What about the guys who don't have the 1500 (or whatever it is) hours of turbine PIC??

What about the guys on the DC-10, the L-10, and the 757??

What about all the furloughees, both voluntary and involuntary??

Speaking of the voluntary furloughees, what about those who are very senior, and could come back right away??

What about the guys who have been turned down by SWA already, 1 or 2 or 3 times??

I'm sure this is more of a can of worms than SWA really wants or needs, ans is also more that SWAPA will care to deal with.

I think the majority, if not all, of the ATA pilots would not end up employed by SWA.

 

[HalinTexas]

One issue, not discussed yet, that would have to be resolved is ATA has many pilots without B737 types flying the airplane. We also have CA on the B737 that don't have 1300 hrs. TPIC yet, either. These were PFE upgrades that spent a little time in the right seat and were allowed to upgrade since May of 2005. This would be a big deal for SWAPA to resolve if there were a merger/fragmentation of some type.

I had heard once that SWA was looking at B757's, on the cheap, hoping that they maybe looking to do Int'l and HI with these airplanes. Unfortunately, there's no such thing, and they still would have to get their own ETOPS. PHX and LAS to HI ain't gonna happen on any B737, and LAS is the most popular destination for Hawaiians. Many of them have moved their to find "affordable" housing. This is a huge market that SWA would be foolish to walk away from.

Of course, stranger things have happened.

 

[HalinTexas]

Boy that was quick.

 

[atafan]

Pickle,

To attempt to answer your what ifs.

Operated as a wholly owned subsidiary, you will just keep all the ATA misfits at ATA operating for SWA.

I love being an ATA misfit.

 

[HalinTexas]

Well, at the risk of starting the previously mentioned seniority list wars that Capt Seth mentioned....

IF IF IF IF IF IF this were to occur, what would SWA do about the FEFOs and FECAs??

What about the guys who don't have a 737 type rating??

What about the guys who don't have the 1500 (or whatever it is) hours of turbine PIC??

What about the guys on the DC-10, the L-10, and the 757??

What about all the furloughees, both voluntary and involuntary??

Speaking of the voluntary furloughees, what about those who are very senior, and could come back right away??

What about the guys who have been turned down by SWA already, 1 or 2 or 3 times??

I'm sure this is more of a can of worms than SWA really wants or needs, ans is also more that SWAPA will care to deal with.

I think the majority, if not all, of the ATA pilots would not end up employed by SWA.

I'll play.

1. Any merger would probably follow pretty close to the Morris Air deal. I'm sure there were pilots there without 1000 TPIC, and I know of a few that didn't have types and a couple that were fired from SWA and went to Morris. This was from one of your pilots I talked to way back when. If they don't have the time? Oh well. Get it and SWA will interview you right away. No type? Well, get it! Isn't that what was done with Morris? SWA could take just those crews qualified on the B737.

2. Fleets. As I've mentioned before, the B757 is a very capable aircraft. At least until something more favorable comes down the pike, say B787. The L10's will be gone soon. DC-10's and maybe B757-300's could be fragmented off to World/NA or Omni. They could just take the certificate, the B737-800's (not the POS -300's) and crews to maintain the certificate and be done with it.

3. Furloughees are still on the list. If SWA staples, as they've always done, then that isn't a problem.

4. Rejectees? I'm one of them. Don't see that as an issue since SWA has hired pilots after multiple attempts.

SWAPA and SWA Management could work it out and not depart from their traditional hiring practices. Just about every pilot at ATA was a captain at ATA at one time. There were a few FO's that bypassed upgrade and we've already discussed the FE to CA issue.

I think it would go smoother, should this ever take place, if longevity was respected, i.e. for the purposes of pay, vestment, vacations. I'm in my ninth year. A 9 year SWA FO makes more than a 12 year CA on the B737 at ATA.

 

[HalinTexas]

Pickle,



Operated as a wholly owned subsidiary, you will just keep all the ATA misfits at ATA operating for SWA.

I love being an ATA misfit.

I don't! It's bad enough no one outside HI and the military knows who we are.

This would never work. DAL started this whole thing in 1996 by not scoping in the RJ's. What I understand about SWAPA scope, this will never fly.