SWA and the 737-800

[waveflyer]

PHX-HNL shouldn't be a problem for the -800. As an aside, you guys are going to love the airplane. It's the best 737 yet made.

I've heard this Fubi^^

Any tips flying it? Short fields, tail strikes, we have guys who rotate a bit aggressive-
I've heard we're getting them with some short field mods- better performance- what is involved in that?

 

[Fubijaakr]

As long as you make a nice smooth rotation (3 degrees/sec) you won't strike the tail on either the -800 or -900. Just let it fly off the runway. As far as PHX-HNL goes, I went to HNL with a 100 kt headwind from SEA and landed with 9k fuel.

It's more stable than a -700 and flies like a dream. You'll love it.

The SLF package allows you to make 25 flap t/os. All it does is keep the leading edge devices from going full extend until you get beyond F25.

 

[Ex737Driver]

I heard Allegient's 757 lacked all the maintenance records or had too many after market parts to qualify for ETOPS. With SWA's planes being brand new that won't be an issue. Maintenance, pilot and dispatcher training should not be too hard either.

New is nice but doesn't guarantee you anything. Allegiant is just one example. Look at defunct SilverJet as well. The training is just one aspect. MX is huge and if they actually do have 28 dedicated aircraft, good. Leaving with an MEL is normally never done on an etops flight, at least at CAL. Takes an hour or two to get an aircraft ready for an etops flight, mx wise. Curious as to the progress of the FAA certification for SWA. Is Airtran etops qualified on their certificate?

 

[waveflyer]

I've heard SWA thought etops would be challenging, and it's been a bit harder than that. But I fully expect success- and know we have some very good, experienced pilots working on our end of it. Same thing on the mx side.
Fub- you know we'll do what it takes- and you also know you just like to flame and dig on SWA - it's boring

 

[calfo]

Can the -800 make PHX-HNL?

You'll be leaving seats empty on this route like we did SNA-HNL and SNA-OGG. On some days, we're weight restricted out of LAX to HNL - depending on the airplane and the warning areas off the west coast.

 

[FCPhotography]

Just commuted through DEN two days ago and they are being told by the company that DEN to Hawaii is part of the plan. Isn't that too far for an 800?

 

[Mamma]

Just commuted through DEN two days ago and they are being told by the company that DEN to Hawaii is part of the plan. Isn't that too far for an 800?

Unless they are equipping the 737-800 with an air refueling receptacle, this won't happen directly. DEN-OAK-HNL would work.

 

[Dan Roman]

You'll be leaving seats empty on this route like we did SNA-HNL and SNA-OGG. On some days, we're weight restricted out of LAX to HNL - depending on the airplane and the warning areas off the west coast.

True statement. PHX is not possible on many days in the winter and Fubi's statement about landing fuel is misleading. It's not what you land with, it's how much fuel you had at ETP that counts and is what the FAA is most concerned about. Very important to know the difference and indicative of one's understanding of ETOPS flying. It's very common for AK to bump bags and Pax's in the winter. Sometime they have to divert to OAK and refuel as OAK is closest to Hawaii and anything longer is not doable. DEN is not even remotely possible and if anyone is seriously thinking that they have a LOT to learn.
One problem I could see that SWA will have to deal with, if they market themselves as the airline that flies bags for free it stands to reason they will get the pax's with the most bags? Big problem with a 737 trying to fly to Hawaii. Not to mention the PR nightmare that "your free bags often get bumped!"

 

[waveflyer]

.....

 

[Mamma]

It's very common for AK to bump bags and Pax's in the winter. Sometime they have to divert to OAK and refuel as OAK is closest to Hawaii and anything longer is not doable. DEN is not even remotely possible and if anyone is seriously thinking that they have a LOT to learn.

It is not "very common" to bounce people/bags but it does happen. The OAK tech stop statement is true though. Denver would fine as long as they made a quick SWA turn in Oakland. Not sure how the duty day would play out though. Does anyone know if the 900ER jets are going to make it to Hawaii?

 

[Dan Roman]

You will be 'schooled' by Fubag shortly!

LOL That's exactly who came to mind when I posted that!

 

[Dan Roman]

It is not "very common" to bounce people/bags but it does happen. The OAK tech stop statement is true though. Denver would fine as long as they made a quick SWA turn in Oakland. Not sure how the duty day would play out though. Does anyone know if the 900ER jets are going to make it to Hawaii?

I was referring to Non Stop, but how would SWA do a "quick SWA turn" before an ETOPS flight? Sounds like a recipe for a violation to me.
There have been months when more than 50% of the time AK has had to bump bags or bags and Pax's. Winter more than summer obviously.

 

[fam62c]

It seems that the Hawaii market is getting pretty crowded. It must be mostly leisure, low-yield fares and the 737 is probably at a CASM disadvantage when compared to larger planes. Considering all of this is it really worth all the effort SW will put into this market? Where is SW's advantage over other carriers here? It might be nice to put another dot on the route map but will it really make much money?

 

[satpak77]

RE:

http://www.transtats.bts.gov/airpor...ulu, HI: Honolulu International&carrier=FACTS

I am sticking to my guess that it will be OAK or LAX-nonstop-HNL. I believe the "Hawaii market" is different than a Dallas-to-Denver traveler who "accepts" an interim stop in AUS/MCI/etc because the ticket is cheap and the service is great.

I think the Hawaii traveler is a different animal and will not desire stops enroute for fuel/etc other reasons.

The HNL traveler is probably more a tourist/vacation (once a year, twice a year, etc) traveler who is not going to loose sleep over paying 150 bucks more to fly Old Legacy Air non-stop, versus save 150 bucks and have to make a fuel stop on SWA. He is already going to HNL for vacation, so comfort and timeliness (he is on vacation, he may have requested time off from his employer, etc.....get to HNL and bang the fiance ? Or spend time buying Cinnabons at an interim stop while refuel occurs ?) are important.

As we know SWA does not do anything without researching it three times over. With that said, I don't know if a "DEN-HNL market" really exists to any extent. SWA is not going to re-invent the wheel.

In any event, good luck and may SWA grow big and strong bones, so it hires when I am retired from my current gig.

 

[IAHERJ]

We run a daily 767-400 on the DEN-HNL run at UAL. Most of the passengers are business travelers cashing in their frequent flier miles for a week of vacation with the family. Hawaii must be doing well because we just put the 777 on our flight #1 daily from IAH-HNL beginning March. ORD-HNL is a 777 and NYC(EWR) runs daily with a 767-400. I won't even try to delve into SFO/LAX/SNA service to Hawaii except to say it varies from 767-300 on down through the 757 and the 737NG's to include the -700 I believe. Then there is HNL Westbound service to GUM and NRT non-stop on the 777's and the island hopper that makes around 5 stops on it's way to GUM on a 737-800. That is just HNL. Pretty sure we serve a few other Hawaiian cities from the West Coast. Any L-UAL guys have further information? Don't think we are going anywhere if SWA decides to serve the islands. In fact I hear we are getting all the 757-300's ETOPS equipped to replace some of the 737's operating out there as well as to add service to HNL/OGG from LAS/SEA and possibly PDX. The more the merrier!