SWA and SWAPA Negotiating -800s

[Flyarcticcat]

I will have to disagree with you Chase. Out of the 30 FO's I have talked with not including my classmates. Not one has said they do not want anything in exchange for the 800. To the contary they are worried about being on the street because the company will not agree to a one for one swap. All wanted more pay and help with retirement. Also all mentioned being in the right seat now from 15-25 years. Retirement and 401k were big issues due to the increased upgrade with adding the 800's.

 

[knowlimits]

What a perfect time to merge this thread with the 'Why do people love to bash Southwest?' thread.

Ugh.

Since the -800 announcement I've asked my FO's (probably 12+) prior to expressing my thoughts what they desired for approving of the -800 buy.

1. All but one FO agreed, -700 for -800 swap...one for one. No reduction in overall plan to bring AC on board.

2. No change to pay structure. More money immediately from -800s is not the objective; adding to the bottom line and increasing revenue in order to promote adding more airplanes and in turns new hires. They all acknowledge their biggest pay raise will come from getting to the left seat; adding -800s with no further pilot costs promotes that QOL improvement and quicker upgrade.

3. Rig changes; minor issue but worth exploring. If in doubt, refer to rule #2.

Interesting to hear those sentiments so strongly (unscientific as they may be) but clearly the junior I flew with trust the company to put the emphasis on growth if the revenue targets GK has put out there are achieved. No guarantees but to these FOs this is a better plan than merely waiting for retirements to begin or waiting for incidental fees to increase in order to meet revenue targets.

27% increase in revenue "potential" is a carrot worth pursuing in their view.

I would tend to agree with. BTW, I couldn't imagine flying with better FOs than the ones I fly with....totally professional with other employee groups, upbeat (19 out of 20ish) and positive toward passengers....also, very competent flyers who teach me something nearly every trip...thanks to you all for making it fun after nearly 11 yrs still.

 

[satpak77]

An outsider observing from the sidelines, but why would the FO's "support" a one for one hand over of -700's for -800's ?

How would this (apparent) non-growth create more profit for the compnay and thus benefit the FO's ?

According to company public relations spokesman Mike Vandeven, the decision needs to be made by Dec-1

http://www.blogsouthwest.com/blog/southwest-airlines-evaluate-addition-737-800-our-fleet

Given the long Boeing lead time from order to delivery, Southwest would need to make a final decision by December 1 to begin accepting deliveries by early 2012.

 

[ableone]

Fo's would support a one for one swap because it does no damage.

They are not going to get it, however.

The company has indicated it's going to be a three to two ratio and it is going to back drive the FO's careers.

Were it feasible to negotiate a one for one swap that would probably be a smart strategy. The company will never agree to have their hands tied so tightly and they would be insane to do so.

If the SWAPA group does not wring at least some pay for the FO's (and future downgrades) they are both guilty of a failure to represent and stupid.

 

[GuppyWN]

Bingo.

Gup

 

[satpak77]

on another note, is SWA going to hire due to the pending new crew rest guidelines ?

 

[GuppyWN]

Hire? Why would we need to hire when you can fly MORE blocks hours per day? The majority of our flying is with duty days of 11 hours or less.

I see us needing FEWER pilots because of this.

Gup

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

I'd like to meet the Alaska pilots you're talking to, because the ones I know HATE the company. Haven't you noticed Alaska is the only airline to taxi slower than American?

Alaska Airlines - Great airline, profitable, happy employees, same pay for all 737s.

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

They're picking up extra flying while guys are on the street? Thieving anuses. Although it's not like our senior guys would even think twice about doing it either...

The cappy and the FO on the SEA/OAK flight last week seemed happy. All they could talk about was the extra flying they were doing!

Gup

 

[RyansDad]

Fo's would support a one for one swap because it does no damage.

They are not going to get it, however.

The company has indicated it's going to be a three to two ratio and it is going to back drive the FO's careers.

Were it feasible to negotiate a one for one swap that would probably be a smart strategy. The company will never agree to have their hands tied so tightly and they would be insane to do so.

If the SWAPA group does not wring at least some pay for the FO's (and future downgrades) they are both guilty of a failure to represent and stupid.

I thought I read somewhere in the RP or the educational piece put out that we asked if it was going to be a one for one swap and GK said that was the intent but wasn't willing to be tied to that. I know just like everyone else that things can change at a moments notice and fully expect them not to be tied to any kind of growth formula with respect to the 800 but if that is indeed what he has said than I take him for his word.. I just haven't seen much BS from him to make me think his plan is to reduce the fleet while keeping or increasing capacity thus putting pilots on the street. I'm at the bottom of the pile here at SW so the 800 has the potential to have a very big impact on me. I love working here and don't consider myself to be a a big koolaid drinker but I do take GK for his word.