SWA/Airtran Process Agreement??

[madjack]

GL Said: "Let someone looking in from the outside with no stake in the outcome decide."

Well he has no stake in this and does not have to live with the outcome...

Ty: no seat is protected in the current SWA CBA.....? U can still afford 2 buy on SWA FO pay...

 

[funnyman12]

I'm sure there will be protections in any negotiated or arbitrated SLI for both the SW FO's and junior Airtran Captains. Arbitrators have never taken a position away from a pilot and Gary Kelly does not want to downgrade 400 Airtran pilots and upgrade 400 SW pilots into those positions...not only would Airtran pilots lose their seat, other Airtran pilots would be displaced. So 800 training events and potential 400 pilots moving costs (not sure if that is in the SW CBA) would be money down the drain. There are many innovative solutions that protect both pilot groups AND the company. Gary Kelly could take that money that would be wasted and potentially use that money to pay the SW Fo's captain's pay that are senior to Airtran Captains. Who freakin knows...point is there are sooooo many ways this could be done fair and the culture preserved.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty: no seat is protected in the current SWA CBA.....?

Well, then it's a good thing we're not after your seats like you're after ours.

 

[madjack]

1700 AAI CP/FOs getting a raise is a big expense also but he is going to pay it...

 

[madjack]

Ty: Why is your seat protected yet no SWA CP seat is protected??

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty: Why is your seat protected yet no SWA CP seat is protected??

Watchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis?

 

[-9Capt]

-9,

I guess we can both agree that we hope this whole thing blows up and goes away...and you can stay at AAI.

You: I want your seniority
Me: Ahh, No.
You: Oh yeah, well maybe you'll be out of a job then.
Me: Blow me.

 

[-9Capt]

As to what's "fair and equitable", hopefully our NC/MC's can figure that out. If not, it will be what the arbitration panel says it is.

That much I agree with, sort of.

I'll wager it goes to an arbitrator. I can't see our MC bring back anything that would pass on the SWA side.

 

[General Lee]

You: I want your seniority
Me: Ahh, No.
You: Oh yeah, well maybe you'll be out of a job then.
Me: Blow me.

There you go. Believe it or not, I am not trying to cause discord between you and your fellow bretheren at SWA. You eventually will be flying together. Rather I am making sure that some of you THINK about what really is going on here, and start asking questions to your NC and MEC members. Don't give in to False premises like "You deserve this" or "You owe us", because in reality, you don't. GK liked your airline, decided to merge with it, and you will work just as hard for the new company as current SWA pilots do. You deserve the same pay, and you also deserve a spot on the seniority list that you earned. An arbitrator can figure that out for you, without the pressure from the union or crazy corndogs on this forum.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

That much I agree with, sort of.

I'll wager it goes to an arbitrator. I can't see our MC bring back anything that would pass on the SWA side.

Very smart, and you are probably right. Honestly, I see the SWA people wanting most of the Captain slots, or will say there could be a base freeze for positions, and then SWA will start shifting positions to other bases. You just never know. They only thing that can keep you in your seat or give you a spot where you deserve to be is arbitration. Those arbitrators know SWA is getting a bunch of Airtran planes, and those planes should continue to have Airtran Captains in charge of them. But, if you ask SWA/FO or madjack, they probably think you should kiss their boots and be happy in the right seat, because they are the ones who are ALLOWING you to be there????



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ATLplt]

You: I want your seniority
Me: Ahh, No.
You: Oh yeah, well maybe you'll be out of a job then.
Me: Blow me.

:laugh:

 

[madjack]

GL: The only thing I have been hearing from the AAI guys is we want to keep our seats (which means relative seniority) and the raise...so how is that fair for the SWA pilots?...as much as you dislike SWA, M/B protects the SWA pilots also...it is a little irksome to hear Ty talk about all the money he is going to be making as a SWA CP, when SWA junior CPs and LCs may lose their seats...

 

[Ty Webb]

You: I want your seniority
Me: Ahh, No.
You: Oh yeah, well maybe you'll be out of a job then.
Me: Blow me.

And that, ladies and germs, pretty much much sums it up. . . . all 79 pages. :laugh:

 

[madjack]

This is the divorce before the marriage...

 

[ASADFW7]

The opener was today.

 

[texman]

The opener was today.

Sweet. I wonder how all of us 80,000 and 90,000's numbers will pan out?

 

[N1kawotg]

Please explain General how a pilot from one company "earned" his seat at another conpany by not passing an interview, not meeting qualifications, and not meeting a board. Your logic would induce that any pilot that gets hired at any company should be put in the left seat. We've all earned it. So let SLI so it's job. It is not a pilot's seat but the company's for who he flies. Seniority does rule so why not fight for the Swa guys to keep theirs. One conclusion, pot stirring.

 

[General Lee]

Please explain General how a pilot from one company "earned" his seat at another conpany by not passing an interview, not meeting qualifications, and not meeting a board. Your logic would induce that any pilot that gets hired at any company should be put in the left seat. We've all earned it. So let SLI so it's job. It is not a pilot's seat but the company's for who he flies. Seniority does rule so why not fight for the Swa guys to keep theirs. One conclusion, pot stirring.

Your problem is that you think EVERYONE wants to be at Southwest. Great, your pay is FANTASTIC. Hopefully others will attain that same payscale soon. But, not every Airtran guy wanted to go to Southwest, or buy a type, etc. Maybe those Airtran guys were ASA guys, and wanted to fly from home in ATL. You never know.

GK wanted to merge with Airtran for a reason. He got the WHOLE company, seats and all. He got the planes, and the people, and the slots at LGA, and DCA, and gates in ATL, etc. Those Airtran people earned it, and maybe some of them interviewed at SWA, but a lot probably did not.

And I love hearing about past Airtran pilots that decided to leave (on their own) and go to SWA. That is called bad timing, especially if they were Captains at Airtran. People make choices in life, and that might have been a bad one, just like those SWA Captains that supposedly went to United before 9-11. That turned out to be a bad choice. Good at the time, bad now.

So, not everyone wants or needs to go to SWA, but those Airtran guys now don't have a choice, even if it is a better choice now pay and benefits wise. GK wanted Airtran, and he has them now.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[27 driver]

Please explain General how a pilot from one company "earned" his seat at another conpany by not passing an interview, not meeting qualifications, and not meeting a board. Your logic would induce that any pilot that gets hired at any company should be put in the left seat. We've all earned it. So let SLI so it's job. It is not a pilot's seat but the company's for who he flies. Seniority does rule so why not fight for the Swa guys to keep theirs. One conclusion, pot stirring.

Even if it goes relative how does any SWA pilot lose seniority? They don't lose money, they don't lose bidding power, vacation slots, bases, or anything else. You say its not a pilot's seat but the company's who he flies for. Now we all fly for the same company just have different bargaining agents. No SWA guy will lose anything. Even if it goes relative they have not lost any seniority. 99.9% of AAI guys meet and exceed SWA's mins . GK and the shareholders decided they wanted this deal and they made it happen. You can say AAI guys are lesser pilots and lesser people all day long but that doesn't make it so. You have earned your job and we have earned ours. Get over yourself. You are no better than the other thousands of pilots out there.

 

[N1kawotg]

They lose money by delays in upgrade, week ends off etc. As you say, they didn't choose Swa but how did they earn it. So I guess a new hire hired after will go in front of everyone if they were a capt previously, they earned it right?