SWA - AAI question

[FDJ2]

Gates in Atlanta and some regional feed.

Sounds like AAI has something of considerable value to SWA.

 

[FDJ2]

On this we agree.

We are exactly where we want to be today, and we will be when the acquisition is complete.

Agreed, as long as at the end of the integration process you put it behind you and look forward, not backwards.

 

[roughneck]

Sounds like AAI has something of considerable value to SWA

I don't believe there has ever been a question about that.

AAI brings something to SWA.
AT ALPA brings nothing to SWAPA.

The arbitrators will weight what each pilot group brings to the other not what the companies bring to each other.

 

[PCL_128]

That is a CBA issue.

Agreed, but the SWAPA CBA isn't the only CBA involved in this merger. Our CBA also has scope protections and other provisions that must be addressed. That doesn't have anything to do with interfering with your own transition side letter talks, but it does mean that we have our own issues to resolve. Are you implying that you would like to interfere in our ability to address our issues? I certainly hope not.

No offense, and it is really cool that you come on this site, but it really looks like you guys are trying to either modify our CBA or dictate to our management how to run the airline.

I think you're drawing incorrect conclusions. Have a little faith that both sides are doing the right thing by their members without harming the other side.

 

[Bill Nelson]

Agreed, but the SWAPA CBA isn't the only CBA involved in this merger. Our CBA also has scope protections and other provisions that must be addressed.

What does that have to do with a Process Agreement?

 

[ivauir]

Agreed, but the SWAPA CBA isn't the only CBA involved in this merger. Our CBA also has scope protections and other provisions that must be addressed. That doesn't have anything to do with interfering with your own transition side letter talks, but it does mean that we have our own issues to resolve. Are you implying that you would like to interfere in our ability to address our issues? I certainly hope not.

Of course not, but your issues aren't with us. You have a contract - enforce it.

I think you're drawing incorrect conclusions.

You haven't offered any evidence to the contrary - in fact you are reinforcing my impression that the process talks have stalled because ALPA has a transitional issue

Have a little faith that both sides are doing the right thing by their members without harming the other side.

No offense, but it isn't a matter of faith and your organization's actions are troubling.

Are you guys going to agree to a reasonable process or not?

 

[scoreboardII]

Our CBA also has scope protections and other provisions that must be addressed.

a CBA which evaporates on date of closing. Good on you for getting what you can while the gettings good.

 

[PCL_128]

Of course not, but your issues aren't with us.

I never said that they were.

You haven't offered any evidence to the contrary

Since you're making the allegation, I would think that the burden of proof should be on you.

Are you guys going to agree to a reasonable process or not?

Are yours? I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that they will, so I would ask you to do the same for us. This process will only get ugly if you insist upon making allegations without hard evidence. I suggest that everyone just let the teams from both unions do their work.

a CBA which evaporates on date of closing. Good on you for getting what you can while the gettings good.

You have a lot to learn. Start with reading the SEC filings from September.

 

[roughneck]

a CBA which evaporates on date of closing

The AirTran CBA doesn't evaporate at closing. They may live under it for the full 5 years depending on how the integration goes. AirTran pilots do not get the SWAPA CBA at closing. They will continue to operate as AirTran under their own CBA until the operations are combined, if they ever are.

 

[ivauir]

I never said that they were.

You are talking in circles.

Since you're making the allegation, I would think that the burden of proof should be on you.

This is straight from your organization:

"Disagreement remains on the critical issue of completing an operational merger within a specified time. As such, both sides agreed to defer further discussion. In the meantime, we will work instead to arrange a meeting between SWAPA, ALPA, and the managements of AirTran and Southwest, with the goal of concluding work on a Process Agreement; reaching a common understanding of the merger process; and discussing Transition Agreements to protect the interests of AirTran and Southwest pilots during the period between the Date of Corporate Closing (DOCC) and an operational merger of the two carriers. The MEC will have additional information on plans for those meetings, coming soon."

You are ALPA. These are your own words.

Why are you attempting to control the timing of a Southwest Airlines business decision through an agreement with SWAPA over the process of negotiating an ISL?

How can you ask me to give you the "benefit of the doubt" when this is the first thing you do?

 

[PCL_128]

Sorry, but I'm not going to get into a protracted debate with you about this. Simply, ALPA isn't holding anything up.

 

[ivauir]

Simply, ALPA isn't holding anything up.

That is in contradiction to your own communication piece.

 

[PCL_128]

That is in contradiction to your own communication piece.

No, it's only in contradiction to the way in which you're reading it. Like I said, you're drawing incorrect conclusions. Nowhere does the ATN ALPA update say that the union is holding anything up. That's just your perception.

 

[dicko]

That is in contradiction to your own communication piece.

Welcome to PCL 128 world. It's a circle. It was created in his image; The only perfect sphere ever found in nature.

 

[redflyer65]

SWA and SWAPA clearly demonstarated to the entire industry their lack of understanding of acquisitions/mergers during the Frontier debacle.

This one statement really shows how much you know about that transaction.

It is well known at this point that Gary had no real desire to buy Frontier. It was a look at the books and an attempt to make the actual buyer pay more.

Nothing more to it..

 

[ivauir]

Welcome to PCL 128 world. It's a circle. It was created in his image; The only perfect sphere ever found in nature.

Huh? Am I missing out on an inside joke or something?

 

[redflyer65]

which happens within 60-90 days of DOCC; it's not a lengthy process.

I'm not so sure about that. Ask the Republic/F9 guys how that's working out for them.

I could easily see an arbitor taking >1yr to rule on something like this even AFTER hearing arguements. Their goal is to drag their feet and make the parties argree in the meantime. I mean what a great gig. You hear arguements then doing nothing for an extended period of time.

That would not be quick..

 

[redflyer65]

Huh? Am I missing out on an inside joke or something?

Yes you are.

 

[dicko]

Huh? Am I missing out on an inside joke or something?

When you meet him you'll understand.

If it's any consolation, you wouldn't get a straight answer even if you were an ATN ALPA member.

 

[redflyer65]

The AirTran CBA doesn't evaporate at closing. They may live under it for the full 5 years depending on how the integration goes. AirTran pilots do not get the SWAPA CBA at closing. They will continue to operate as AirTran under their own CBA until the operations are combined, if they ever are.

This part is exactly right. So if it drags out more than 18 months on the AAI side (which I easily see happening) are the AAI guys going to sue Southwest at that point?

That could be interesting to watch.