SWA/AAI and the flight deck jumpseat

[shootr]

"significant gain" in relative seniority at the expense of the AirTran pilots

You're kidding, right?

 

[SWA/FO]

You'll notice that I haven't said a single thing here about what I expect from the SLI. Neither have Ty, Lear, Kharma, or the other AirTran posters.

true dat! Its been all the SWA guys....

Looks like Ty talked about what he expects just the other day and I quote:

In other words, to an Arbitrator, it's not going to be brain surgery. There will be no staple. There will be no "bump and flush". There will likely be not a lot of change, period. That is their job- to merge the lists in a way that causes the least amount of change to a pilots' expectations for seat, equipment, domicile, and bidding power, and the number of years in the top seat.

I know you guys don't like it, but historically, that is how it has gone. If you want to take your chances on Arbitration, I think you'll be surprised and disappointed. As long as you keep thinking you are the "star-bellies", though, reaching a mutually agreeable list that will pass muster with both Pilot groups is unlikely.

Its about time for you guys to man up and realize that this is a great deal for you.

Look, there are no "do overs" ask the F9 guys. Tranny's are getting a great deal, you would have my respect, if you would acknowledge this fact.

Southwest is the best job in aviation period and you are very close to having it. I'm being honest, you guys could really F this thing up.

We bought you... sorry.

Make a list of what you're getting from Southwest compaired to Air Tran, where you are at now. Not talking any seniority, make a list of your gains. It should be a long list, that should bring a smile to your face.

Now go get on our list and be thankful, this is a great Company. Picture yourself in our uniforms imp: (which will make you look like this) cus, if you don't want it, guess what 8,000 pilots applied for 200 openings.... they want it. Frankly, I'd rather give them a shot then listen to Ty cry :bawling:forever!

 

[SWA/FO]

Here is another quote from Ty, check your facts PLC... No wonder they fired ur ass.

And I quote:

The most important thing, to me, is quality of life. The payscales are a given ('cept for the 717, but I'm sure they'll be fair).

I want to work at a place where I can enjoy working with other pilots, and not an "east versus west" "redtails versus bluetails" or "corn dog versus tranny". I feel pretty confident that our negotiators and their will come up with something that we can all live with.

To me, the most fair method is some sort of relative seniority- where you are is where you is

Get your facts right buddy. Ty you know we drug test at Southwest? You know you will have to pass the drug test to work here?

 

[Muppets]

true dat! Its been all the SWA guys....

Looks like Ty talked about what he expects just the other day and I quote:



Its about time for you guys to man up and realize that this is a great deal for you.

Look, there are no "do overs" ask the F9 guys. Tranny's are getting a great deal, you would have my respect, if you would acknowledge this fact.

Southwest is the best job in aviation period and you are very close to having it. I'm being honest, you guys could really F this thing up.

We bought you... sorry.

Make a list of what you're getting from Southwest compaired to Air Tran, where you are at now. Not talking any seniority, make a list of your gains. It should be a long list, that should bring a smile to your face.

Now go get on our list and be thankful, this is a great Company. Picture yourself in our uniforms imp: (which will make you look like this) cus, if you don't want it, guess what 8,000 pilots applied for 200 openings.... they want it. Frankly, I'd rather give them a shot then listen to Ty cry :bawling:forever!

Both sides could really F this thing up. If both groups act like 1st graders the whole thing gets f'd up. Greatest job in aviation? Maybe. But if there is a Karma god that deals with airline pilots, you dudes are pissing him off!

 

[SWA/FO]

But if there is a Karma god that deals with airline pilots, you dudes are pissing him off!

But there isn't one, so we are good! :cartman:

 

[JT12345]

Southwest is the best job in aviation period and you are very close to having it. I'm being honest, you guys could really F this thing up.

Historically it won't last. Take the blinders off. Pop the bubble you have lived in because I don't think you have been paying attention much to the outside Aviation Airline world we live in for the last 20-30 years. You were on the way up. And a great ride it "was." Is it an "is"? You have not grown. You couldn't with us around. Our growth expectations when I got here was 50%. We had 50 more orders coming and 100 options. SWA was no where near that before the oil bubble. We were growing MKE, MCO, BWI, and holding our own in BOS until the merger. SWA was just holding your own. All I am saying is this stuff is fleeting and an arbitrator knows it.

Sorry but it already might be F'thd up over there. Hopefully we turn things around before they go south. Hopefully another Airtran does not come along that out competes SWA and prevents growth. How many can you buy?

Hopefully the other Airline Pilots get nice raises which I think is coming, so we don't take cuts. Worry more about the next 5 years than the next 15.

_______________________________

Wasn't this thread about jumpseat ediquette. Lasted about half a page.

 

[GuppyWN]

Wow.

Gup

 

[shootr]

Take the blinders off.

AirTran CEO Bob Fornaro stressed in a conference call with reporters on Monday that AirTran had "done a lot with not much" in terms of financial resources, but that it was becoming less clear that AirTran had the ability to grow and remain competitive in an industry where the size of a carrier's route network is increasingly important.

Quote:
"Southwest has, relative to AirTran, vast resources," Fornaro said. It became clear that "we could do more with Southwest resources" than AirTran could do on its own.

“This agreement is great news for our Crew Members, our shareholders, our customers and the communities we serve. Joining Southwest Airlines will give us opportunities to grow, both professionally as individuals and as a group, in ways that simply would not be possible without this agreement,” said Bob Fornaro

 

[redflyer65]

Wow.

Gup

I just about posted the same thing Gup. Talk about throwing you future employer (maybe), under the bus.

I'd say SW has alot more growth ahead of it than behind it. Airtran did do alot with what they had, but they were running into picking around the edges of the larger carriers. And that worked good for awhile, but Bob knew it was getting harder unless he had a ton more cash..and he didn't.

The orders meant nothing JT. Unless the plane is on the ramp, it's just all speculation. Look at Virgin America. All those guys over there are wetting themselves with all the orders, but if it turns into a Skybus operation and folds..what good are the orders? (and I'm not saying AAI was going to fold, just pushing up against a difficult situation trying to fund the new orders)

RF

 

[27 driver]

Can't we all just get along. Fact of the matter is that none of us know for sure what the future holds as far as our industry or our company. No one can predict how many airframes either AAI or LUV would of had or will have in the future. We can agree that this is an extremely dynamic industry and things change fast. (ex. Sept 11) No one can predict if this will be settled via negotiations, mediation, or arbitration. Its been said many times but it bears repeating. Let's just let this thing play out then move on. I am happy now and will be happy after this thing is done no matter what the outcome. I hope everyone else can say the same. This job is too much fun to be miserable about what might happen in the future. I propose a mud slinging hiatus.

Cheers folks.

 

[Tripower455]

Can't we all just get along. Fact of the matter is that none of us know for sure what the future holds as far as our industry or our company. No one can predict how many airframes either AAI or LUV would of had or will have in the future. We can agree that this is an extremely dynamic industry and things change fast. (ex. Sept 11) No one can predict if this will be settled via negotiations, mediation, or arbitration. Its been said many times but it bears repeating. Let's just let this thing play out then move on. I am happy now and will be happy after this thing is done no matter what the outcome. I hope everyone else can say the same. This job is too much fun to be miserable about what might happen in the future. I propose a mud slinging hiatus.

Cheers folks.

Amen!

 

[27 driver]

Tripower,

Great Avatar. They sure don't make cars like they used to.

 

[SWA/FO]

If you IDIOTS would acknowledge - THE GREAT DEAL in front of you, You would get the respect of some of the SWAPA Pilots. Only 3% of all trannies are on this message board - So there is hope for your group. I can honestly say without a doubt 100% of SWAPA Pilots would agree with my next statement: "that we could care less if you ever make our list", in fact we hope you don't. (hint: This is you Ty)

Ty is holding a pair of 2's and he must think 2 are wild, but they are not. His buddy PLC/PCL is holding a 3 & 4 and thinks he is going to draw a straight. Both are clueless. The dealer is Gary Kelly, the drink girls are SWAPA interns, the other players are Jordan, VDV, SWAPA. Nothing is wild. SWA dudes are drinking, Ty and PLC/PCL are sweating and drinking water...

For my COOL friends, my tranny bros...the ones that call me with questions and are truely excited about the GOOD DEAL in front of them. I can't wait to have them over here at this awesome Company! Eric, Mark, & Rob these are great dudes and they are going to luv it, here.

:cartman:

 

[Dennis Miller]

Can't we all just get along. Fact of the matter is that none of us know for sure what the future holds as far as our industry or our company. No one can predict how many airframes either AAI or LUV would of had or will have in the future.

Virtuous observation! The actuality is, you can only make a dais on what has ensued in the past, not what may be in the future. Orders, growth and upgrades are all words until they come to culmination. I have no association in this merger, but the argument that how a company was about to perform in the future being used as a basis for it’s strong suit, in said merger, is a weak argument at best. I would say that for the AirTran comrades, this acquisition holds more perks than Elvis' nightstand.

 

[waveflyer]

I think both pilot groups share in the benefits. I believe upgrade times for SWA pilots will significantly drop. I think we'll see massive growth over the coming years as the synergies are realized, which benefits everyone equally. I think you'll get to fly international routes that you otherwise never would have flown. I don't believe for a second that all of the benefits are on the side of the AirTran pilots. I think it's disingenuous for you to imply that they are. I also don't believe that an arbitrator will buy it.

AT pilots: immediate 40-50% raises, no looming strike, better schedules, coast to coast base options, + any growth that possibly might happen.

Swa pilots : any growth that possibly might happen.

And you think I'm fanning the flames to say that guys want the SLI slanted in their direction? What if that growth never materializes. If this thing isn't as successful - what then? We want seniority to protect us from that scenario.

And you must be high if you think that every single growth plan and International ops plan was dependent on Air Tran.

You don't see the arrogance of that statement?

I think you PCL have always aggressively looked for shortcuts. It's why instead of instructing and building time like a man- you plopped down tens of thousands to be at gulfstream. It's why you hopped over to pinnacle instead of a better regional, lower mins- who cares about pay when mom and dad have always provided eh- and now you want ALL the benefits- REAL BENEFITS- the kind that PAY YOUR MORTGAGE and SEND YOUR KIDS TO COLLEGE- but those aren't paramount to you, because money isn't a valuable thing in your world- money's just an abstract thing that allows you to take shortcuts PLUS a relative seniority that you DESERVE ??
Well, for some of us, it is very real- and flying airplanes is how we EARN it.

I think you are way more concerned with your ALPA CAREER than actually MAKING A LIVING flying airplanes - I think you have disconnected yourself from how much this money will change the lives of all your pilots-

I simply disagree, and can't be prouder of my air tran brothers for removing you. And I only urge them to not be taken in by your ulterior motives- get on the list.

An AT guy ASKED ME what I thought was fair. It's an opinion only- I trust my union on this completely. but I will say that your lives will change when you get on the list- anywhere on the list- if youre on the bottom, your life and schedule will improve from what they were.

 

[JT12345]

If you IDIOTS would acknowledge - THE GREAT DEAL in front of you, You would get the respect of some of the SWAPA Pilots. Only 3% of all trannies are on this message board - So there is hope for your group. I can honestly say without a doubt 100% of SWAPA Pilots would agree with my next statement: "that we could care less if you ever make our list", in fact we hope you don't. (hint: This is you Ty)

Ty is holding a pair of 2's and he must think 2 are wild, but they are not. His buddy PLC/PCL is holding a 3 & 4 and thinks he is going to draw a straight. Both are clueless. The dealer is Gary Kelly, the drink girls are SWAPA interns, the other players are Jordan, VDV, SWAPA. Nothing is wild. SWA dudes are drinking, Ty and PLC/PCL are sweating and drinking water...

For my COOL friends, my tranny bros...the ones that call me with questions and are truely excited about the GOOD DEAL in front of them. I can't wait to have them over here at this awesome Company! Eric, Mark, & Rob these are great dudes and they are going to luv it, here.

:cartman:

Put the crack pipe down. What is this high school with your "cool" friends. lol. What is this "Happy Days." Are you Fonzi? That is pretty funny man.

I can tell you many of the pilots at Airtran think it is a good thing. A good deal depends on the SLI. The problem is that the SWA pilots don't think so because they have been living in a bubble. You guys said it that you guys could care less if this merger happens I hope... what you rote is that you could care less if we are on the list. That is another example of the ignorance and the bubble you have been living in. I can promise u that you don't want a whipsaw. It would be the worst thing for the culture overthere and as a company as a whole. It would be the quickest road to the company going south like the rest of the industry.

 

[JT12345]

Wow.

Gup

You have to think outside the box and look at the situation from the outside in. You guys are either in denial about the company or trying to use smoke and mirrors to blind us to the inevitable situation SWA will be facing. This merger is a sign of it. Gary Kelly in 08 said things were substainable till 2010.

I worry about more furloughs than upgrades right now. I think you guys are too. This merger might help prevent that, and the first downturn at SWA in a long time if ever there was one (well done btw. You guys have been awsome). You know how to turn a airplane and utilization is great at SWA, but you make 30% more than everyone else. Either they come up or you/we come down. Other airlines have wised up too. I am not a fortune teller, but I know what is worth something and what is worth less. However, time will always tell.

I have been right about a lot of things with this country and the economy over the last decade. Lets just say I am doing ok financially by my own definition, but things are going to get worst in this country before they get better... if they ever do.

 

[ASADFW7]

Deleted

 

[SWA/FO]

I can tell you many of the pilots at Airtran think it is a good thing. A good deal depends on the SLI. The problem is that the SWA pilots don't think so because they have been living in a bubble. You guys said it that you guys could care less if this merger happens I hope... what you rote is that you could care less if we are on the list. That is another example of the ignorance and the bubble you have been living in. I can promise u that you don't want a whipsaw. It would be the worst thing for the culture overthere and as a company as a whole. It would be the quickest road to the company going south like the rest of the industry.

Sure we live in the Southwest bubble.... a bubble you want to get into. I'm already in the bubble dude.

Did you not see my poker example above? Gary is the dealer!! You think GK is going to sink this Company to make some trannys happy? This is a GOOD deal regardless of SLI. You can be the last dude on the list and this is a GOOD deal. NO DO OVERS, ask F9. Keep it up, you have the most to lose. Keep getting mouthy, keep telling us how your company was in great shape! BLAH BLAH BLAH.

The culture is everything here, Family members come first, YOU ARE NOT FAMILY, yet. There will be NO WHIPSAW, no growth at tranny, no tranny. You are on a sinking ship (we have pulled the plug, you are taking on water), you need to make the move to SWAPA's list. This should be your mission, get on the list. Sure we are all chest pounding and its entertaining, but I'm not the one trying to switch lists, you are.

Do your Family a favor and get on the list. Make this hard on GK and you will be left out of this game and it will be perfectly legal.

Now, I'll start by saying something nice about tranny: "I like the fact that all your airplanes have WI-FI on them". Now its your turn to say something about Southwest (the place you want to work at, remember?)!

:cartman:

 

[Kharma Police]

Sure we live in the Southwest bubble.... a bubble you want to get into. I'm already in the bubble dude.

Did you not see my poker example above? Gary is the dealer!! You think GK is going to sink this Company to make some trannys happy? This is a GOOD deal regardless of SLI. You can be the last dude on the list and this is a GOOD deal. NO DO OVERS, ask F9. Keep it up, you have the most to lose. Keep getting mouthy, keep telling us how your company was in great shape! BLAH BLAH BLAH.

The culture is everything here, Family members come first, YOU ARE NOT FAMILY, yet. There will be NO WHIPSAW, no growth at tranny, no tranny. You are on a sinking ship (we have pulled the plug, you are taking on water), you need to make the move to SWAPA's list. This should be your mission, get on the list. Sure we are all chest pounding and its entertaining, but I'm not the one trying to switch lists, you are.

Do your Family a favor and get on the list. Make this hard on GK and you will be left out of this game and it will be perfectly legal.

Now, I'll start by saying something nice about tranny: "I like the fact that all your airplanes have WI-FI on them". Now its your turn to say something about Southwest (the place you want to work at, remember?)!

:cartman:

Nice picture of you on the ATN ALPA msg. board! You got a purdy mouth!