SW has a TA

[Tanker Clown]

guys ,tanker + dude = flamebait, they are just comic relief,don't fall for it,laugh at it,trust me,they are.

What part of thinking a contract with slight pay raises in it while 600,000 Americans a month are put out of work is flame? Maybe having a strike over getting a pay increase in the worst economy since WWII is a better idea.

 

[CA Calypso]

What part of thinking a contract with slight pay raises in it while 600,000 Americans a month are put out of work is flame? Maybe having a strike over getting a pay increase in the worst economy since WWII is a better idea.

Who is talking about striking? For the majority of the pilots it's not about a pay increase.

I'm tired of hearing "just shut up and be happy you have a job." Our goal in this contract must be to ensure we have the same job 5,10, or 20 years from now through secure section one language. I'm sorry you don't get it.

You know, our parents and grandparents went through many recessions and a depression before our generation. Everyone will do what they have to do to make it through this. It will pass. The 24/7 barrage from the media and politicians is doing more to accelerate and deepen this recession than anything else. They have created a nation of panic sticken wimps who are ill prepared to succesfully endure the hardships of previous generations.

 

[Tanker Clown]

It's attitudes like that in unions (such as the UAW) that has destoyed the American work force and made it less productive in relation to the world. Enjoy your upcoming unemployement.

 

[Benhuntn]

Gup, I not sure I follow your logic on deciding against a TA you haven't seen. Second, we fly to DEN and RSW those were two code share cities off the top of my head. I would think we would easily learn the ropes of ops in Can. and Mex from our code shares and then steal the business just as we did with ATA. I don't know how I will vote but my mind is open until I see something in print.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Benh

Voice of reason, rather than emotion.

Bravo!

 

[CA Calypso]

It's attitudes like that in unions (such as the UAW) that has destoyed the American work force and made it less productive in relation to the world. Enjoy your upcoming unemployement.

Exactly what attitudes? The American workforce is among the most productive in the world. We work the most hours, days, and weeks. You confuse productivity with lowest cost.

You don't suppose that Corporate America farming out jobs (with our politicians' blessing)to the lowest bidding foreign countries had anything to do with that? That happened in the manufacturing sector long ago, then tech, then.... There are many in our government and private sector that would love to try this in the airline business. It's called cabotage.

Please don't compare SWAPA to the UAW - you not of which you speak.

 

[Splert]

I would think we would easily learn the ropes of ops in Can. and Mex from our code shares...

I sure the SWA FO and SWA CA formely from SkyWest and Comair and Eagle and X-Jet can tell you and he/she works for SWA.

If they can't - here you go: at 50' reduce thrust to idle and then flare.

 

[GuppyWN]

Ben,

DEN and RSW were indeed codeshare cities. What's ATA, Braniff, Eastern, and Pam Am have in common? Short answer. They can't defend someone taking their cities and routes.

Do you really think WestJet and Volaris are just going to hand over their routes after they building them up? Do you really think their governments are going to graciously allow it?

Ben, give me an example of codeshare by a major airline that grew said airlines seniority list. When your done trying I'll give you SEVERAL examples of codeshare that ended up with tprops and rjs on mainline routes.

I appreciate your opinion Ben. Just don't agree with it. Thanks for your time.

Gup

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Ben, give me an example of codeshare by a major airline that grew said airlines seniority list.
Gup

SWA and ATA. SWA moved into DEN. 2008 growth was primarily due to DEN expansion.

 

[CaptWidgeon]

SWA and ATA. SWA moved into DEN. 2008 growth was primarily due to DEN expansion.

did you miss the second half of the first paragraph? didn't ata close the doors in early april? there's a huge difference between flying routes to replace a company that doesn't exist versus letting another company 'test the waters', then if they are money makers taking over those routes.

if codeshare is such a moneymaker why are other airlines that have codeshare out the tailcone in the red?

not picking on anyone but here are 2 carriers with quite a few codeshare partners but less than stellar bottom lines:

http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,1177,00.html
http://www.aa.com/aa/i18nForward.do?p=/aboutUs/codesharePartners/main.jsp

if i'm not mistaken i believe we had a rep from another carrier talk to our union and tell us codeshare is NOT a good deal for the parent company. really???

 

[Lear70]

Something about a camel's nose under the tent flap comes to mind...

There's no reason Southwest can't run Canada and Mexico on their own.

For people who haven't dealt one-on-one with Mexican officials, good luck trying to take over a route that one of their airlines already operates. They're BIG on ZERO cabotage down there; it's so bad you can't even fly EMPTY point-to-point inside Mexico.

It's a completely different animal than Alaska or Hawaii... If your reps can hammer that out of the T.A., great. If not... well... it's your T.A., but I wouldn't vote for giving ANY scope of ANY kind away, including additional codeshare.

Best of luck!

 

[tzskipper]

CaptWidgeon

did you miss the second half of the first paragraph? didn't ata close the doors in early april? there's a huge difference between flying routes to replace a company that doesn't exist versus letting another company 'test the waters', then if they are money makers taking over those routes.

With all due respect, you need to review some recent history between ATA and SW. ATA was "re-structuring" under the leadership of.... drum roll please... Mr. X (ex SW CFO, now on the sw Board of Directors?), during which ATA pulled out of FLL, RSW, MCO, SRQ, PIE, PHX, DEN, SFO, LAS... and gave up 10 (?) gates in MDW to SW.

In short, ATA existed while SW had it's way with it. Looking back, it sure seems obvious who was calling the shots.

 

[indytestdude]

Tanker Clown

Tanker Clown,

Unions didn't destroy America.

I hate the Military Guys (I am retired AF by the way), who preach self reliance and rugged individualism all the while feeding off the public treasury.

Shut your pie hole and continue to suck the Govt tit.

PS. Wish I knew who you were so I could black ball you at Southwest. Bite the bait and PM so I can make sure you don't darken the doors of a Company I LUV.

 

[CaptWidgeon]

skipper i agree with you completely. i'm not going to sit here and say swa is all goody goody in terms of business, it's business. if they see an opportunity they'll jump, we've been very lucky to have mgmt that keeps us able to move quickly and take generally good, calculated risks. with the ata deal i don't know what went on behind closed doors, but i do think it was smart business decisions that helped swa in a number of ways.

ata worked out good for us, what are the chances though that we'll get a codeshare with a company that's financially weak AND get a former mgmt member in to run that company? i've got to guess slim to none.

when kelly said we were signing with westjet i wasn't happy but i was open minded. if they have a good product in place, a good name and rep and we can make some $$$ quickly with minimal cash output, maybe i'll get behind ya', but show me your plan. when they announced volaris, a company that doesn't even fly to the u.s. yet, has less than 20 aircraft, and you tell me they are more capable of flying cross border than us, uhhhh, i'm not quite buying that one.

all we want to do is keep this company from going down the same road others before us have gone. if kelly has a stellar plan that codeshare will make us a ton of money and not hurt us like it has others before then good, let's take a look, but so far all i've seen is smoke and mirrors.

 

[canyonblue]

For people who haven't dealt one-on-one with Mexican officials, good luck trying to take over a route that one of their airlines already operates. They're BIG on ZERO cabotage down there; it's so bad you can't even fly EMPTY point-to-point inside Mexico.

This is the hardest thing to explain to some of the guys over here. Many tell me not to worry that we will just take over the flying to Mexico and Canada when we feel like it.

That's what we're up against.