Sundries on the Jet: The next threat

[brainhurts]

Yet YOU are trying to have a say in the business operation.....You are contradicting your own message.....Take your own advice and let them charge for "extras"....More revenue is a good thing....except to you socialists.....

BINGO. It seems that Obama's seeming success with no experience and a marxist plan has fired the imagination of our young friend Rez. Rez believes that if he just uses big words and talks alot, people will be impressed and vote him into higher ALPA positions. I see a politician in the makings!!

 

[JoeMerchant]

I think he slipped a cog. He was ranting about how Rabbi's hate their brothers on another thread. Sleeping pills and alcohol? Were just not sure yet, but we're not ruling it out.

He's definately losing it.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

BINGO. It seems that Obama's seeming success with no experience and a marxist plan has fired the imagination of our young friend Rez. Rez believes that if he just uses big words and talks alot, people will be impressed and vote him into higher ALPA positions. I see a politician in the makings!!

I wonder if Rez would support a "redistribution of wealth" within ALPA? How about we tax the top end and give it to first year regional FOs....Wouldn't that be "fair".....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yet YOU are trying to have a say in the business operation.....You are contradicting your own message.....Take your own advice and let them charge for "extras"....More revenue is a good thing....except to you socialists.....

No I am not... as usual you can't comprehend and you look for the rare event and try and make it sound like common occurrence.....

All I am advocating is this thread is that pilots understand how the dynamic is changing..... and how to consider approaching management at the negotiating table when the dynamics of the market have changed....

Or do you think in a airline environment where most of a n airlines profits are made from on board sales and charging for luggage that pilots should negotiate from a 1970's airline business model? Well?

I wonder if Rez would support a "redistribution of wealth" within ALPA? How about we tax the top end and give it to first year regional FOs....Wouldn't that be "fair".....

This is what the RJDC was all about and your silly lawsuit that failed miserably...

How is that committee of UAL and NWA mainline pilots doing that are looking our for RJDC interests?


Well?

 

[brainhurts]

I wonder if Rez would support a "redistribution of wealth" within ALPA? How about we tax the top end and give it to first year regional FOs....Wouldn't that be "fair".....

Uh, is he really flying an airplane at your company? His answer to your question reads like a herion addict's withdraw pains.

 

[enigma]

Nice.... but I maintain it is a threat.....

And you mentioned Ryan Air in Europe...

Now I've heard that some pilots think Ryan Air is a good place to work.. an opportunity perhaps for US pilots looking for work....


Ryan Air sells incredibly cheap tickets. O'leary makes his money selling ancillary services and products like wheelchair requests, food, products, baggage, etc...

Ryan Air is a transnational airline. It has operating certificates in one country and labor based in a different country. So it finds the country with cheapest laws for its certificate and labor.

Imagine as a US pilot flying for a Mexican airline that has an operating certificate from Trinidad/Tabago and a crew base in Aruba. What labor law do you fall under? As a US pilot can you image trying to enforce gov't law or a union contract in Aruba? Or is it Trinidad because that is where the certificate is.. or is it Mexico because that is where the corporate headquarters is....


Back to the main issue.....


First.... Ryan treats its pilots like Mesa does. The Ryan/Mesa model is what the global start ups are copying... not SWA...... Many pilots at Ryan air are "indentured Servants" because they are so deep in debt.. they can't afford to quit working and look for another 'career'.... Sound familiar Mr. Regional Jet Pilot?


But just as important... since Ryan Air and now other airlines are making money from ancillary sales... the airline ticket is not the primary revenue source....

If you think airline management doesn't give a damm about us now... wait till we are no longer the primary generator of revenue.... How will management view all the cost of safety, training, mx, etc when they realize that there is no money there... They will want to dump money into marketing schemes to sell stuff..

Of course one has to consider how management thinks... not how we think....

Rez, If the RyanAir model was looked upon as being the way to go by US airline ownership and management, Spirit would be growing by leaps and bounds instead of shrinking/furloughing.

Spirit essentially started the current US movement to charge for everything and to sell advertising inside the airplane. At the moment, Spirit's future is very much in doubt because of our inability to attract the investment capitol necessary for continued operation and growth. Obviously the money men don't think much of our business model.

How do you explain this apparent conflict?

 

[Soverytired]

I think the most simplistic answer for why the RyanAir model works in Europe, but not so well at places like Skybus and Spirit in the US is this:

RyanAir got started in a low-cost carrier vacuum in Europe, and espanded rapidly. Skybus/Spirit had plenty of competition with existing legacies, not to mention the behemoth that is SWA.

I think it's apples and oranges, really. Places like AA, DAL, USAir can't switch to the RyanAir model, but they can adopt some of their ideas to try and make additional revenue.

Frankly, who cares where the $$$ is coming from, as long as it's for "my" airline. The pie has to grow before we can share it. It's not like I have to deal with an irate passenger because they just paid $50 bucks to check a bag . . that's a cost/benefit decision that management must weigh.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, If the RyanAir model was looked upon as being the way to go by US airline ownership and management, Spirit would be growing by leaps and bounds instead of shrinking/furloughing.

Spirit essentially started the current US movement to charge for everything and to sell advertising inside the airplane. At the moment, Spirit's future is very much in doubt because of our inability to attract the investment capitol necessary for continued operation and growth. Obviously the money men don't think much of our business model.

How do you explain this apparent conflict?

Spirit is not a transnational airline like Ryan Air. From a business viewpoint Spirit is shackled by US laws: labor, FARs, the RLA, investment laws, owenrship, etc...

If Spirit could get a operating certificate in the Caymen Islands, crews from Mexico, and crew bases in Cuba.... (or any given mix..... or countries...).


It is like the maritime industry... how does a landlocked country offer ship registry? (luxemburg)

 

[Freight Dog]

If Spirit could get a operating certificate in the Caymen Islands, crews from Mexico, and crew bases in Cuba.... (or any given mix..... or countries...).

Rez, don't you think that we are the proverbial Mexicans/Chinese of the airline world with our ridiculously low pay all the way around?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, don't you think that we are the proverbial Mexicans/Chinese of the airline world with our ridiculously low pay all the way around?

Yes. However, everything is relative. No matter how bad ones situation is.... it can probably get worse..