Summer Surcharge Fees from Major Domestic Carriers

[NEDude]

So wait, you think SWA will go to Copenhagen too? Kinda like Ryanair and Easyjet coming to the States, right? Well, you guys said originally that you would never go back to DEN, or go into a place like LGA or PHL, so maybe you guys will change your minds SOMEDAY. But first, your mangement has to trust you enough to fly to Hawaii or Mexico/Canada. Initially they wanted Westjet and Volaris to do it, thinking I guess that those guys could handle it. With you guys slow learning VNAV and the new PFD, they thought it would be overwhelming for you probably. Good luck in achieving those lofty dreams.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Hmmm, SWA to Copenhagen huh? Hey more options to commute to/from the states.

 

[General Lee]

Hmmm, SWA to Copenhagen huh? Hey more options to commute to/from the states.

According to Chase, YES. Of course he also thinks SWA will get Space Shuttles and Sonic Cruisers.....all for Intra Texas flying. It's ON! AUS to HRL in 4 mins! IT'S ON! ELP to DAL in 6 MINS! IT'S ON!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[GuppyWN]

Delta has a 40 year head start. Southwest will go to places that even make the General sound cool but it'll be after I'm gone.

Which is fine by me.

Gup

 

[NEDude]

According to Chase, YES. Of course he also thinks SWA will get Space Shuttles and Sonic Cruisers.....all for Intra Texas flying. It's ON! AUS to HRL in 4 mins! IT'S ON! ELP to DAL in 6 MINS! IT'S ON!


Bye Bye--General Lee

Well as of today NASA does have one shuttle available (a great 25 years of service Atlantis!) and two more available in around 5-6 months. How about taking the Atlantis to Copenhagen. lol

 

[relief tube]

Hey, how about the airline charges what it actually costs to fly!

or better yet, more than it costs to drive.

On any given day, we transport people in a faster and safer way than driving a car, not to mention pax have the time to themselves......yet pilots willing to work for pithy wages and work rules allow "bargain airlines" to charge less than the real value of it.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

Someone please do the General a favor and throw a tarp over him. He's embarrassing himself and doesn't even realize it.

 

[chase]

GL,

39 years ago Braniff and Trans-Texas airlines attempted to prevent a small upstart airline to begin operation. With only 3 airplanes Southwest Airlines began operations with a pretty simple schedule.

If anyone had predicted SWA would grow to 537 airplanes and become the largest domestic carrier they would become.....should we say skeptical...kind of like some are toward SWA expanding into international flying...again, not today, tomorrow or this year....I'm just saying, there are great opportunities for any airline that treats their customers well while at the same time treating their employees as good while finding the operational efficiencies with a pricing model that is profitable.

The airline analysts out there believe the consolidation airlines and alliances are the wave of the future to accomplish all of that. They maybe right.... there maybe a different way to accomplish that goal and that model may not even exist right now but could blossum from an unexpected source. Could it be SWA? Could it be Virgin Air/Virgin America? How about AA/JB?

Who knows but anyone who underestimates those airlines that have a track record of success is similiar to what has allowed those same airlines to prosper.

Ironically, the biggest naysayers of the SWA experiment are no longer around. I have no crystal ball but do believe there are lessons to be learned from airline history.

 

[General Lee]

GL,

39 years ago Braniff and Trans-Texas airlines attempted to prevent a small upstart airline to begin operation. With only 3 airplanes Southwest Airlines began operations with a pretty simple schedule.

If anyone had predicted SWA would grow to 537 airplanes and become the largest domestic carrier they would become.....should we say skeptical...kind of like some are toward SWA expanding into international flying...again, not today, tomorrow or this year....I'm just saying, there are great opportunities for any airline that treats their customers well while at the same time treating their employees as good while finding the operational efficiencies with a pricing model that is profitable.

The airline analysts out there believe the consolidation airlines and alliances are the wave of the future to accomplish all of that. They maybe right.... there maybe a different way to accomplish that goal and that model may not even exist right now but could blossum from an unexpected source. Could it be SWA? Could it be Virgin Air/Virgin America? How about AA/JB?

Who knows but anyone who underestimates those airlines that have a track record of success is similiar to what has allowed those same airlines to prosper.

Ironically, the biggest naysayers of the SWA experiment are no longer around. I have no crystal ball but do believe there are lessons to be learned from airline history.

Sure, history is something we can all learn from. How did People's Express do? Originally they were a domestic LCC out of EWR, and they grew quickly. Before anyone knew it, they decided to leave their comfort zone and grow into something they had little understand of, INTL travel. They thought their own LCC model would work across the Atlantic, providing cheap travel over long distances. How did that work out? The whole airline went bust, and merged into present day CAL. Your 737-700s will NOT be flying across the ATLANTIC, and if you get away from your "derivative" aircraft model (staying with one type for advantageous cost reasons---parts, training etc), your costs will soar. Your service is tollerable for maybe 5 hours without inflight entertainment or bigger meal service, but across the pond will require a lot more, which means more costs. When was the last attempt at a pond crossing LCC? I think it has been awhile, and even though Ryanair has threatened it (mainly in their futile attempt to buy Aerlingus which the GOV'T said a big NO to), they still haven't tried it, and for good reason. But, I would love to see you guys try it! Go for it, it will be FANTASTIC.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Someone please do the General a favor and throw a tarp over him. He's embarrassing himself and doesn't even realize it.

Thanks Dad. BTW, please take your hand out of your pants and get away from the computer. Go do something productive.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Bringupthebird]

It's like a few extra large ice cubes in a fresh Coca Cola. Ahhhhhh!
Bye Bye--General Lee

I encourage you to enjoy one of those on your next trip to Mexico City. :laugh:

The bag rip-off will end just as soon as someone sells Expedia, et.al on the software necessary to calculate the total fee-inclusive price as soon as you select a city-pair. Right now they can get away with it, but technology always fills the ignorace gap. Sometimes with more ignorance, but that's another issue.

 

[Full of LUV]

I encourage you to enjoy one of those on your next trip to Mexico City. :laugh:

The bag rip-off will end just as soon as someone sells Expedia, et.al on the software necessary to calculate the total fee-inclusive price as soon as you select a city-pair. Right now they can get away with it, but technology always fills the ignorace gap. Sometimes with more ignorance, but that's another issue.

Two points:
1. On SWA, when you "shop" for your flights, it never includes (or even shows) your total till the end, apparently their "fares" don't include taxes and fees. That used to p me off, but I still flew on them. They have gotten better over the years as they now include a statement on the search page saying "fares do not include fees and taxes". But back in the day as an infrequent traveler it surely felt as a bait and switch when you went to pay and there were suddenly hundreds of fees. Guess that's the power you get when you only sell your tickets on your own web site disallowing any direct price competition.

2. The Bag Fee is only paid by the random, ill informed, non-regular traveler without an affinity CC. In a funny way, it actually builds brand loyalty as once you even have a basic level of frequent travel benefits, you qualify for free bags, so the regular traveler feels "more special" in that they aren't charged all the fees the infrequent traveler has to pay.

But heh, to each his own. The SWA flying experience is as close to Greyhound as you can legally get in the skies. I applaud thier "no frills" attitude, but you confuse "no frills promised, no frills given" with great customer service. Lastly, the majors switching to RJ's for domestic service has also allowed SW to make some great strides, right up to the point that they begin to run into other LCC's (not US Air) product lineups, IE Airtran.

Best of luck to both!

 

[redflyer65]

Seriously, why do you care about so and so campaign? You and I fly airplanes. We should care about things that affect us, not what marketing does.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

This is the major "Grand Canyon" rif between your vision of Delta, and the SW employee view of their company.

We care about every aspect of our company because when Southwest make money.... we get a cut of it. We have skin in the game. We care, you could care less..

When you lose money quarter after quarter, all you can say is it looks good for next quarter yada, yada, yada. And the loses continue to pill up. Good for you.

 

[redflyer65]

Guess what? These people can afford it, or bill it to their clients. Even the coach passengers are happy, with free booze and a meal.


Bye Bye---General Lee

General, your pretty entertaining with this stuff, but the reality is that Delta got their butt handed to them by over extending the long hauls. Its a fact.

No one was paying for anything during this down turn, yet SW flying to LBB and ISP was still making money. Delta, not so much.

 

[chase]

GL
DAL has a great product. Good luck. SWA will never pose a threat to DAL or any overseas carrier. Foolish to even think it. My bad. cheers

 

[chase]

GL
DAL has a great product. Good luck. SWA will never pose a threat to DAL or any overseas carrier. Foolish to even think it. My bad. cheers

 

[General Lee]

General,

This is the major "Grand Canyon" rif between your vision of Delta, and the SW employee view of their company.

We care about every aspect of our company because when Southwest make money.... we get a cut of it. We have skin in the game. We care, you could care less..

When you lose money quarter after quarter, all you can say is it looks good for next quarter yada, yada, yada. And the loses continue to pill up. Good for you.

First of all, we do have profit sharing, and you are right, the last couple years we haven't seen any. If this revenue boost helps achieve that, then GREAT. WIth the Global economy getting back into shape (even slowly), the backbone of legacy flying (INTL business travel) will help add to profits, and thence profit sharing. We all want a bonus, and even though I think Copenhagen and Dublin layovers are a bonus themselves, I also want to see some extra cash. And, I don't know many of our employees who could "care less" as you say. I think most are refreshed and want DL to succeed. Every airline (even yours) has a few bad apples.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General, your pretty entertaining with this stuff, but the reality is that Delta got their butt handed to them by over extending the long hauls. Its a fact.

No one was paying for anything during this down turn, yet SW flying to LBB and ISP was still making money. Delta, not so much.

I don't think DL lost money due to over extending long hauls---DL parked 22 757s and 6 767s, along with some 744s and even A330s. The problem was a hedge problem, with a lot at over $100 a barrel. (it was going up past $130 at the time, though) Fleet wise, DL did a good job with a pull down at the right time, but when you are paying a lot more for fuel than the rest, that doesn't help. DL's current hedging program is a lot better at a lower price. And, those 22 757s, 6 767s, A330s, and 744s are coming back, and hiring will be starting soon also. Do you have an app in yet with DL? I know those 5 leg days are getting to you, or will. Good luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

GL
DAL has a great product. Good luck. SWA will never pose a threat to DAL or any overseas carrier. Foolish to even think it. My bad. cheers

I am proud of you Chase, finally you have figured it out. Cheers and doing ISP and HRL flights the rest of your life won't be too bad. Just think, you can still jump with DL over to Europe. You might even get a free ice cream sundae on the jumpseat too (if they didn't run out in back!). It really tastes great.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Whataburger]

Seriously, why do you care about so and so campaign? You and I fly airplanes. We should care about things that affect us, not what marketing does.

Bye Bye--General Lee

You not being able to comprehend why we do care is what makes our airlines different. Everything our company does affects us. Fleet planning, marketing, advertising, customer service, baggage handling, how much we pay for peanuts, how much we pay for gates in LBB, etc, etc, etc. EVERYTHING my company does affects me. That's why we care. If this ship goes down, we go down with it. If it is profitable and people keep comming back, every employee wins. If every employee group and division of this 33,000 person operation gives all they can, we will have a paycheck every 5th and 20th of the month until we choose or have to retire. In addition, it's a nice feeling to be a part of a operation this is by no means flawless, but runs pretty nicely. The loads prove it.

By all means please enjoy Copenhagen, as I will enjoy spitting Copenhagen into a napkin filled cup in Lubbock-by-God-Texas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK2WEPdbmUc

 

[General Lee]

You not being able to comprehend why we do care is what makes our airlines different. Everything our company does affects us. Fleet planning, marketing, advertising, customer service, baggage handling, how much we pay for peanuts, how much we pay for gates in LBB, etc, etc, etc. EVERYTHING my company does affects me. That's why we care. If this ship goes down, we go down with it. If it is profitable and people keep comming back, every employee wins. If every employee group and division of this 33,000 person operation gives all they can, we will have a paycheck every 5th and 20th of the month until we choose or have to retire. In addition, it's a nice feeling to be a part of a operation this is by no means flawless, but runs pretty nicely. The loads prove it.

By all means please enjoy Copenhagen, as I will enjoy spitting Copenhagen into a napkin filled cup in Lubbock-by-God-Texas.

And WE don't care???? Come on. I am sure there are employees at every airline that are bored and couldn't care any more about their job. A well run hub is a great thing to watch, and most of the time things work that way. Throw in bad wx anywhere and things get messed up. Have you been up to LGA yet during ground stops due to wx? If you haven't, you will understand it eventually. Not fun. Sometimes you can't help unforseen circumstances.

And, I like how you used my "Copenhagen" reference into your own story. I can't wait to hear how you "Stuttgarted" in your pants one day during a walk around in MAF, and when you were alone one night in BOI and "Rio'd all over yourself"........ Clever!


Bye Bye--General Lee