Students and freshly minted commercial pilots read here!!

[Joe Schmo]

If i got hired at a regional with less then 150 hours, would you consider me very fortunate or very lucky, maybe both.

Pilots to often confuse ability with expierence, I personally don't believe 500 TT is enought, a pilot should have at least double that. Secondly won't that first regional job be alot sweeter if you started out at 30K and without a 100K debt.

Great post McJohn, the pilots in this industry should strive to make it better. Unfortunately most of us all are to busy arguing about who the better pilot is, which is the better company to work for, who hand flies an ILS better, which airplane is the coolest to fly, who has the hottest flight attendents, which beer tastes the best, etc, etc, etc....

 

[BoilerUP]

If i got hired at a regional with less then 150 hours, would you consider me very fortunate or very lucky, maybe both.

I hope you left a zero off that number, because if you got a job with less than 150 hours you don't even have a commercial ticket yet...

Pilots to often confuse ability with expierence, I personally don't believe 500 TT is enought, a pilot should have at least double that. Secondly won't that first regional job be alot sweeter if you started out at 30K and without a 100K debt.

You are entitled to your opinion that 500tt isn't enough; some recent 121 training program pass statistics would say otherwise. You are right pilots often confuse ability with experience, but many pilots also tie ability with total time, which can be a terrible way to judge one's skill.

Despite popular opinion to the contrary, regional jobs won't magically start paying $30k during the probationary year if people didn't accept $23,000 job. Payrates (like everything else) are negotiated in the CBA and companies won't pay a penny above that because they don't have to. Pay would be $30/hr first year if a negotiating committee could TA a rate that high.

I hate to sound like the champion of low-timers here, but I'm tired of pilots basically saying that they didn't get hired at that low time, so those that do are ____________ (fill in blank with unsafe, unprofessional, inexperienced, etc). One pilots way is not necessarily the best way for another, and yes, a pilot can get to that point without being $100k in debt. Anybody who leverages themselves enough to buy a house simply to get flight training isn't financially responsible.

 

[mcjohn]

Anybody who leverages themselves enough to buy a house simply to get flight training isn't financially responsible.

O.K. So I'm not financially responsible? What makes you think anyone would buy a house SIMPLY TO GET FLIGHT TRAINING? That the dumbest thing I've heard so far today. You make no sense. Think of every reason you've heard throughout your life of why people buy houses.
Why don't you share YOUR ways of the most financially responsible way to get flight training?!

 

[BoilerUP]

O.K. So I'm not financially responsible?

If you put yourself $100,000 in debt for flight training, then no, you are not financially responsible. Ever heard of Dave Ramsey? He'd probably be screaming at you right now.

What makes you think anyone would buy a house SIMPLY TO GET FLIGHT TRAINING? That the dumbest thing I've heard so far today. You make no sense. Think of every reason you've heard throughout your life of why people buy houses.

You completely missed my point. Where I come from (central KY to central IN) $100,000 will get you a small 1100 sq ft, 3ba/1ba home on a slab with about .15 acres of land. A home is an investment, the biggest capital purchase of most people's lives and really the only good reason (other than student loans) to have any debt. To incur debt to better yourself through job training or education is fine, but you have to look at what that debt will ultimately cost you versus your income potential afterwards. And lets face it, any entry-level job (especially in aviation) doesn't pay especially well.

Why don't you share YOUR ways of the most financially responsible way to get flight training?!

I went to a Big Ten university with an aviation program out of state and all said and done, my education cost me somewhere around $110,000. That includes a Bachelors degree out of state, rent for 3.5 years, books, and all my flight fees. My parents paid for one year, I worked three jobs (including flight instructing & ferrying airplanes starting two weeks after the end of my soph year), the Air Force paid for a bit and I incured about $45K in student loans. The total cost of all my ratings (zero time through CFI-AIM) probably ran $40K, but in the end of school I had FlightSafety training & time in type on a bizjet, a bunch of transport category sim time, 400+ dual given and multiple job offers upon graduation. It worked well for me and I wouldn't trade my experience for anything - but what was best for me is not necessarily best for someone else.

Don't take what I said as an insult - it wasn't meant to be - but as my good friend TonyC says, "the truth only hurts if it should..."

 

[H2OK9]

my two cents

I think every destination has several paths and the correct path to take is up to the individual and their situation. On you 500 hour rule. I have to disagree. I had 194 hours single engine and bought 100 hours multi in a c-310. after my commercial ticket, I did a little research and found a company that paid my to seed thunderstorms in texas and oklahoma flying a c-340. ya ya, crappy job but great experience with weather. I flew all summer left with 194 sinlgle and 300 multi. hired at great lakes..ya ya I know but did my time there made some cash (not much). Left with 4000 hours and am a chief pilot for a private company that has me flying them to Mexico everyother week. oh the pay is well...let say I bought a house and a 911 cab this year. not trying to brag or toot the horn just think that if it is your passion to fly then nothing should stand in your way and I don't think you can judge someone by their choices they make to get there. Ok, let the bullets fly....This is not meant to start a huge debate not did I check my spelling...let it go..

 

[positiveg]

So, unless you know some company that's willing to put my ass in a plane for free or find me a jet job of which I'd be happy to fly for nothing in order to make myself more attractive to the airlines, I'd appreciate it if you just shut it.

That attitude is what drives down the industry. Nobody should fly for free. Stop whoring yourself.

And I don't mean to offend when I say this. But you've made the mistake with CAPT and now you need to wake up and get rid of that attitude. People need to get paid to fly.

 

[Flying Ninja]

I wasn't being 100% serious. As far as a flying career goes, there's no way I'm getting a job. I don't have the hours, and I certainly don't have the money to get a CFI and build time with my debt payments. It's over. The only way I'd get a jet job is if I do it for free because I'm not competitive. Not that it matters because I can barely afford anything far less rent in another city.

 

[mcjohn]

if it is your passion to fly then nothing should stand in your way and I don't think you can judge someone by their choices they make to get there. Ok, let the bullets fly....This is not meant to start a huge debate not did I check my spelling...let it go..

I agree. If someone wants to spend 100k on ratings so be it. I'm trying to make folks see the consequnces of how dangerous that can be...especially if they go to work for a regional that will force them into bankruptcy. Folks have got to have a plan......whether it's the parents or refinancing or whatever.....just be ready to do something.

My way is by far NOT the best way. I'm way behind (hours and job wise) and what I have to show for it is a nice home and wife and lack of debt. That's what I chose. I'd just like folks to have some solid info to make their decision with. And I don't want people to support bad PFT or PFJ. It undermines the industry and lets the rich kids get ahead who sometimes are total tools. I don't see flying as any more a privilage then truck driving....just a lot more interesting and fun.

Boiler up, I am totally missing your point....I just don't see how this is supposed to make sense:

Anybody who leverages themselves enough to buy a house simply to get flight training isn't financially responsible.

 

[positiveg]

I wasn't being 100% serious. As far as a flying career goes, there's no way I'm getting a job. I don't have the hours, and I certainly don't have the money to get a CFI and build time with my debt payments. It's over. The only way I'd get a jet job is if I do it for free because I'm not competitive. Not that it matters because I can barely afford anything far less rent in another city.

Why don't you go to the airport and work washing planes or something in return of your CFI? At least you could get a job when you got your CFI.

 

[Purpledog]

Here's some advice from left field:

Be smart. Find something you're good at, more or less enjoy, and can make a lot of money doing. Buy a plane and fly on the side. Newsflash .. after awhile, flying is just another job .. unfortunately one with low pay and zero stability. Chances are if you make a career out of this "hobby", you'll regret it in the long run .. unless you're the kind of guy who likes being poor, underemployed, and prepetually bored with the mundane routine of flying a bus from airport A to B to C to A, etc.

concur.