Strike Vote Called For at NetJets

[FLYLOW22]

FLYLOW22: PUT DOWN THE CUP. There's something in the cool-aid.

I put down the company cool-aid years ago. Come on Rick... How do you feel about the situation?

 

[PseudoName]

Hey NJA guys, do you realize that turning the majority of corporate aviators against your efforts? By stating that we will be SCABS when flying your owners on OUR Part 135 certificate flown for Executive Jet Management (NOT NJA), you will have definately defeated any slim chance you had getting a job in the corporate aviation world outside of NJA! Period.

Maybe that doesn't seem important now, but I am sure it will be an issue when you are beating feet on the pavement, holding a sign and not receiving a paycheck!

 

[johnny taliban]

you will have definately defeated any slim chance you had getting a job in the corporate aviation world outside of NJA! Period.

Exactly,
these guys better get everything they want in this new contract because if they follow through with the "SCAB" threat these jokers are gonna have one he!! of a time getting hired by any corporate operators. I dont think they realize that they are pi$$ing alot of people off . If they label everybody "SCABS" and then decide to leave NUTJETS for greener pastures NOBODY is going to hire them. It really is an idiotic position to put yourself in but like I said in an earlier post,less competition for me .

Johnny

 

[PseudoName]

I personally know of a few corporate operators who employ NJA pilots on a contract basis. Within the past week, those guys have "mysteriously" disappeared from the contract pilot list.

It's too bad for those NJA guys. One of those guys was on second year f/o pay, with a family and needed the extra $$ we paid him to fly on his days off.

I wonder if his more senior union buddies are willing to supplement the income he has lost due to their name calling.

.....things that make you go, hmmmm.

 

[208starcheck]

No one is on second year FO pay. Thanks for playing and get it strait before posting. I believe captain pay is hovering around 8 months. In the next couple days it might drop to 3 months. Waiting and hoping.

 

[fracstar]

Specific... Let me try here. If I were scheduled to fly a trip during a NJA Pilot strike then I would be sure that it was NOT a NetJets sponsored trip. All you have to do is ask the right questions of your company and of several other outlets available though the various FBO vendors. If I were not satisfied with the answers given then I would hold off on making a few bucks on a charter flight in lieu of not having to worry with the spectre of a SCAB label. This is not an easy situation for the the industry to deal with but it is coming.

What to tell your boss? I would openly ask if they intend to operate NJA trips during a NJA strike. I would offer my objections to flying those trips in a polite way. I would try to emphasize that it might be better to wait until the storm stettles prior to vending for NJA. At least I would have communicated my true feelings to the powers that be. I don't personally believe that the majority of pilots WANT to SCAB. It happens becasue of various pressures (mostly econimic) exerted on labor from management.

Benefits received? A clean SCAB record. A clear conscience. Also a feeling of confidence in knowing that you did your part to protect the careers of the pilots in this industry. If you are looking for some sort of strike pay or tangable item in return I'm afraid you most likely won't find much. Benefits like that come only with Union membership but that's only a couple of Union Cards away if you wish.

You give NJA pilots a bad name. There are many NJA pilots that post here and if they don't start shutting idiots like you up we all will have to assume everyone at NJA agrees with this nonsense. Your scab threats are useless. Stop trying to strong arm helpless 135 charter pilots into losing their jobs. I do think many fractional pilots do look forward to going straight corporate one day. You better hope your few NJA idiots don't turn everyone in 91 land off so bad that you won't want to put NJA on an app or resume. No one in the real world cares about your NJA Teamster scab list. Those crooks tried to come in and unionize us and we collectively told them to take a hike.
Also, don't worry about people crossing to fly QS tails or NJA sell-offs. Your owners are smart enough to figure a way out of their contracts, smart enough how to individually or multi-party sue NJA for charter/jet card supplements or other alternate travel payments, and definately smart enough to shop elsewhere. We have already picked up significant business from NJA owners through share sales, jet card sales and demos.
Be careful who you push away. So far you have been pretty successful at turning off your owners and you are now working on the entire GA community.

 

[fracstar]

We are now taking large steps to close that gap between our pay grades. The pay here sucks ass. Period. It's a crap job as . Why would you not support us in trying to change that and in the process "raise the bar" for this entire sector of the industry? Do you not want the positive effects that raising of the bar would create on paychecks for thousands of corporate and frax pilots?

I am sick of you NJA morons trying to act as saviors to the fractional industry. You idiots have been paid crap for a long time and are not raising the bar for anyone. In fact, I work at your 91k competitor and already make the salary you are fighting for. This accomplished with no union. If anything, you are not raising the bar you will be lucky to get up to the rest of our bars. Just because your company sucks stop painting a negative picture for the rest of the fractional industry. That said I do wish you all well in getting a fair contract.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Why exactly are you 135 guys on the fractional board anyway? You have your own board, and you don't see any of us over there interrupting your "NJA pilots suck" circle-jerk.

You all say that our union's definition of what is struck work has turned you against us. Well I don't happen to agree with that definition, but you 135 guys' crappy attitudes and constant bitching about something you profess not to care about is starting to change my mind.

You all certainly sound like a bunch of scabs...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Why exactly are you 135 guys on the fractional board anyway? You have your own board, and you don't see any of us over there interrupting your "NJA pilots suck" circle-jerk.

You all say that our union's definition of what is struck work has turned you against us. Well I don't happen to agree with that definition, but you 135 guys' crappy attitudes and constant bitching about something you profess not to care about is starting to change my mind.

You all certainly sound like a bunch of scabs...

"go to your own board..."

...

 

[Brett Hull]

FLYLOW22, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume from your profile that your career has gone something like this: CFI to regional, to USAir or United, furlough, now NetJets. You've never had the misfortune of working for a rat$hit 135 operator. You said:

What to tell your boss? I would openly ask if they intend to operate NJA trips during a NJA strike. I would offer my objections to flying those trips in a polite way. I would try to emphasize that it might be better to wait until the storm stettles prior to vending for NJA. At least I would have communicated my true feelings to the powers that be.

Now let me give you the answer that 99% of the boss's will give the pilot who raises these concerns. He will say, in a polite way: "You have two options: Fly the trip or find a new job".

Charter is a cutthroat industry, and the owner of a charter company sure as hell isn't going to turn down the revenue just so you can improve your financial condition. They don't care. Their bills still have to be paid. And when you go on strike and they're able to pad their bank accounts, that's what they're going to do. That's just the way it is. That is the "character" (and I use that term loosely for a lot of them) of people who run charter companies.

Now THAT is reality in the 135 charter world. I hate to sound so harsh, and I'm not going to call you an idiot like some other people have; I just don't think you understand how it works because you've never been there.

It's been asked before, and I'll ask it again: Are you going to pay this pilot's bills when he gets fired for fighting your fight? Is he going to get a preferential interview with NetJets when you go back to work after a strike?

If the answer is no, well, you better get your union leadership educated and under control.

It really is an idiotic position to put yourself in but like I said in an earlier post,less competition for me.

That's what I'm talkin' about! That may be the only good thing to come out of this mess.

 

[h25b]

Ok, then why are you flying sell-off trips for Netjets if you despise them so much?

O.K., you can't read either... I don't fly NetJets' sell-offs but there's other aircraft on our same certificate that do. Like I said before NONE of the pilots on those aircraft (and yes I've asked them ALL) are going to deny ANY charter (including NetJets). This is a particularly interesting fact because all of the aircraft are managed airplanes in which each department has their own Chief Pilot that would theoretically have the power to deny. So this proves to me that NOONE is going to honor this threat... Sounds like that collective, "up yours" to me that I forecast.

As for the percentages that I spoke of earlier. Trying to compare us two is definately an apples/oranges deal. The percentages salary plays to the overall equation DOES play a part (how much is just symantics). Like I said before, we're typically in the 15-20% of total cost of operations so obviously it sticks out pretty big on the spreadsheet. So your salaries might not be the deal breaker, but when your trying to keep things in house every little bit helps.

 

[El Chupacabra]

As for the percentages that I spoke of earlier. Trying to compare us two is definately an apples/oranges deal. The percentages salary plays to the overall equation DOES play a part (how much is just symantics). Like I said before, we're typically in the 15-20% of total cost of operations so obviously it sticks out pretty big on the spreadsheet. So your salaries might not be the deal breaker, but when your trying to keep things in house every little bit helps.

To beat a dead horse.... This is just not true.

If a flight department is replaced with a QuarterShare... The savings in pilot salaries is not significant compared to the aquisition cost savings of a $5 million quartershare compared to the $19 million whole airplane for a CE-750. Its the $14 million difference and the Cost of Capital. 1.4 million/yr appreciation on that $14 million if invested in something returning 10%

In this situation I could be earning 3 or 4 times what you are paid and it still is better to go with a 1/4 share than full ownership.

Alternatively for the cost of owning and operating a Citation V maybe an owner could ride in a G-IV or a Falcon instead. Or be able to Upgrade or downgrade depending upon the needs of the trip instead of owning multiple types of aircraft.

Its OK if you don't like me because I fly fractional... just don't kid yourself about why flight departments close down. Our pay has next to nothing to do with it.

 

[FLYLOW22]

No one in the real world cares about your NJA Teamster scab list.

I wish I were talking about Teasmster-only SCAB list. I am talking about the same SCAB list that floats around APA, ALPA, SWAPA, IPA... That is why this is such a big deal.

The SCAB list also will affect recall rights for pilots headed back to various majors someday. Several airlnes have specifically stated in their by-laws that no SCABS will be retained on the seniority list.

I am just trying to release information, not smear a fear campaign. We have menagement for that. Pilots can choose to support, attack, defend or verbally trash talk the SCAB policy. It is what it is. It is what it has been for several decades.

Those wishing to read up on the history of strikes and SCABS will want to go to the local bookstore and read up on "Flying the Line: Part 1" and "Flying the Line: Part 2". For the record we are all currently writing Part 3.

Those pilots wanting to get official word on the SCAB policy from ASAP/Teamsters Local 1108 should do so by contacting the office.

Here's the link for contact info.

http://www.asapflightdeck.com/contact.html

 

[FLYLOW22]

So far you have been pretty successful at turning off your owners and you are now working on the entire GA community.

For the record... Owner displeasure has been directed towards NJA corporate. It has been directed towards NJA corporate for LYING to prospective owners about the compensation offered to NJA pilots and the level of happiness currently held by NJA pilots in regards to labor/management relations. LYING... pure and simple. Just to give you all an idea of the response management gives when confronted with an accusationof LYING they say that, "it's not lying if there was no intent". Owners were told in OMA at the NetJets booth that NJA pilots make up to $150,000. Those same owners were a bit upset when they walked to our demonstration outside at learned that only the top 1% of NJA pilots make that money (BBJ) and that actually the average income for us is around $45,000. We have heard salesmen tell prosective Owners that we make "Airline Pilot" salary... they forget to add the word REGIONAL to the Airline Pilot salary description. There is a HUGE play on words coming from the top here right now. We are choosing to clear the air on the issue.

We take great care of our Owners. We are professionals. The reaction in OMA during picketing from Owners is typical the reaction from Owner resposes aborad. "Shocked and appauled".

We've been lied to for years... the Owners have too but are only now realizing it.

 

[El Chupacabra]

I recommend remaining calm ... and resisting the temptation to incite people. We may not be released by the NMB and in that case there will definitely be no strike. A lot of blood pressures will have been raised for nothing.

"War is the Continuation of Politics... and Politics is the Continuation of War... by other means."

Mao Tse Tung quoting and paraphrasing Clausewitz in his Little Red Book




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