Strike Vote Called For at NetJets

[Diesel]

I haven't experienced any of these things. The FAs' sick calls don't affect safety, just convenience. NEF due dates don't affect safety either. We are NOT required to call in before submitting an AOG, except to facilitate arrangements to fix the problem and to make sure we are squawking the item correctly, which can be an issue. This doesn't affect safety either. If you are genuinely fatigued, who cares if an ACP "tries to shame you" to continue flying? They never tried to shame me. Man up and do the right thing, guys. Pulling and resetting breakers? Really? If you are on the ground, and the procedure is needed to interrupt power to the system, there is NOTHING wrong with that, and I speak as a long time A and P mechanic. By the way, review boards for people who have numerous sick calls is only common sense. What the HECK is wrong with that? If one has "meticulous documentation" then what's the problem? Go attend the review board and show them your problems are legit! Respectfully submitted by Yours Truly.

So because it doesn't happen to you it isn't happening? Is that the argument your making?

 

[acaTerry]

If NJA doesn't offer me enough, I will leave. No fight needed.

G4, keep that up and you will run out of places to run away to. Sooner or later you just have to fight.

 

[Diesel]

I sincerely appreciate the offer because I know you truly believe in what you are doing, but you don't want me there either. If NJA doesn't offer me enough, I will leave. No fight needed.

How do you think NJA is just going to offer you money? What do you think will get that pay raise? You're going to have to fight for it.

Right now you want someone else to do the fighting for you. You want someone else to walk the line in Omaha so you don't have to choose a side. Then you can say NJA didn't give me enough so I'm leaving.

But what did YOU do to get enough? I doubt you'll ever leave. You've got a good little thing going on. You can still say the union is screwing you.

You won't acknowledge things are happening to other pilots because they aren't happening to you.

Let me explain this to you. The gulfstream fleet is very very different than all the other fleets.

As we've seen though with your SCAB posts you won't lift a finger to help out. We all know you'll never leave. Yet you'll actively work AGAINST your fellow pilots to ensure that YOU are taken care of.

 

[aeronautic1]

1800 resumes on file, people on the outside don't think it is that bad compared to flying aged out junk in the 135 on-demand buisienss for $35K/yr

Maybe $35K illegal alien flying right seat in an Lr35 air ambulance but my company flies nice Hawkers and F/O start is $46K. Capt pay is averaging $95: ($125K with per diem and OT).

 

[Some guy]

Dude, really?

Pencil whipping write-ups?

Requiring you to call in before you write up an AOG item so they can try and talk you out of it?

NEF's with due dates BEYOND 2030?

Asking you to pull and reset breakers when it ISN'T an approved procedure?

Pencil whipping? That's a pretty serious accusation. if you really think this is this case (which it isn't at NJ) then you need to be making formal complaints / inquiry requests.

What department is trying to talk you out of AOG items? It isn't MCC. The guys get reported every time a pilot's feelings get hurt, which lately seems often. Sir, write it up send it in.

The NEF list are approved by numerous entities, are reviewed by the FAA, and the items on those lists don't affect airworthiness. Many still get fixed. Many have to wait until refurb. Scratched countertop due in 2030...so what?

The guys used to ask about pulling circuit breakers because it helps with troubleshooting. This isn't an issue with other operators unless they are intent on slowing progress or hurting the company. Going black and restarting the aircraft solves many problems as you know, but we're not allowed to ask you to do that anymore. Write it up and refuse assisting us, and then when we get there 6 hours later there will be no problem...hence a possible reason you're accusing the company of pencil whipping. Not an approved procedure...how sad, but that's what we deal with.

A pilot reports cabin temp inop in auto, we ask if it works in manual and many times the answer will be "I didn't try". We had one yahoo say "I'm not a test pilot". Really? How are we to narrow things down when the system operates fine on the ground? Thanks buddy.

Go ahead and flame away. You guys tie our hands, then bitch when things don't get fixed right away. I guess it's all part of your game.

Thanks buddy.

GS

 

[Some guy]

All that said, not all of our pilots are children with temper tantrums, just some of them.

SG

 

[pilotyip]

Maybe $35K illegal alien flying right seat in an Lr35 air ambulance but my company flies nice Hawkers and F/O start is $46K. Capt pay is averaging $95: ($125K with per diem and OT).

No US citizens, college grads, even some ERAU grads, flying BE-99, BE-1900, Shorts 360's, mostly single pilots, building time paying dues. I get resumes from them all the time. NJ would be a big move up for these guys.

 

[Pervis]

1800 resumes on file, people on the outside don't think it is that bad compared to flying aged out junk in the 135 on-demand buisienss for $35K/yr

About two hundred met our mins, and two left either during or soon after training. Only a fraction of the intended class even bothered to show up. We are also seeing a significant uptick in attrition, most going to the legacy carriers. We are hurting for crews and it will only get worse. It would appear we no longer suck the least.

 

[T-1GUY]

Two fourteen year Netjet Captains asking for letters of rec and help getting a job. All I can say is wholly sh$t. Things must really suck at Netjets...

FOURTEEN YEAR CAPTAINS LEAVING!!!

 

[T-1GUY]

Two fourteen year Netjet Captains asking for letters of rec and help getting a job. All I can say is wholly sh$t. Things must really suck at Netjets...

FOURTEEN YEAR CAPTAINS LEAVING!!!

 

[Diesel]

Maybe $35K illegal alien flying right seat in an Lr35 air ambulance but my company flies nice Hawkers and F/O start is $46K. Capt pay is averaging $95: ($125K with per diem and OT).

Never consider per diem and ot in any pay scheme. It is soft money that can't be guaranteed.

When pilots or management start quoting soft money that isn't good.

Not saying your doing that but if there was no ot tomorrow would you put that down on your loan application.

 

[Diesel]

Pencil whipping? That's a pretty serious accusation. if you really think this is this case (which it isn't at NJ) then you need to be making formal complaints / inquiry requests.



What department is trying to talk you out of AOG items? It isn't MCC. The guys get reported every time a pilot's feelings get hurt, which lately seems often. Sir, write it up send it in.



The NEF list are approved by numerous entities, are reviewed by the FAA, and the items on those lists don't affect airworthiness. Many still get fixed. Many have to wait until refurb. Scratched countertop due in 2030...so what?



The guys used to ask about pulling circuit breakers because it helps with troubleshooting. This isn't an issue with other operators unless they are intent on slowing progress or hurting the company. Going black and restarting the aircraft solves many problems as you know, but we're not allowed to ask you to do that anymore. Write it up and refuse assisting us, and then when we get there 6 hours later there will be no problem...hence a possible reason you're accusing the company of pencil whipping. Not an approved procedure...how sad, but that's what we deal with.



A pilot reports cabin temp inop in auto, we ask if it works in manual and many times the answer will be "I didn't try". We had one yahoo say "I'm not a test pilot". Really? How are we to narrow things down when the system operates fine on the ground? Thanks buddy.



Go ahead and flame away. You guys tie our hands, then bitch when things don't get fixed right away. I guess it's all part of your game.



Thanks buddy.



GS

Haha if your not understanding what a scratched countertop or chipped corner or ripped leather seat or inop seat means then you don't get it.

These are important things that the owner sees and dragging them out to 2030 doesn't make the owners feel warm and fuzzy. If they aren't able to fix a simple counter top scratch or use duct tape to hold a cabinet closed what else are they passing up on?

So you think an owner leaves a scratch in his car and just doesn't do anything about it? I've had many owners sit down in a chair flip up the table to inspect underneath it because it's the small details that matter and trust me they notice the small details.

If a cabin temp is inop in auto then running it in manual is to see what has failed can be helpful in the troubleshooting process. It isn't ment to be used as a work around to keep the plane flying for the week because that's what happens.

 

[Some guy]

Haha if your not understanding what a scratched countertop or chipped corner or ripped leather seat or inop seat means then you don't get it.

These are important things that the owner sees and dragging them out to 2030 doesn't make the owners feel warm and fuzzy. If they aren't able to fix a simple counter top scratch or use duct tape to hold a cabinet closed what else are they passing up on?

So you think an owner leaves a scratch in his car and just doesn't do anything about it? I've had many owners sit down in a chair flip up the table to inspect underneath it because it's the small details that matter and trust me they notice the small details.

If a cabin temp is inop in auto then running it in manual is to see what has failed can be helpful in the troubleshooting process. It isn't ment to be used as a work around to keep the plane flying for the week because that's what happens.

You missed the point. He tried painting a picture that we defer everything for 15 years. He tried to portray we're not taking care of airplanes on a somewhat public forum. This isn't the case. Of course we would love to see all logbooks clear of discrepancies. if a scratched countertop cannot be repaired, it has to wait for refurb and that is where it will get fixed. If I recall correctly, a full refurb is every 60 months and a smaller interim refurb is every 30 months. We have ways to fix chipped veneer, but it takes time to get the items in and addressed. Inop seats are generally a 10 day item, not 15 years. We try to get them fixed within 3 days. No the stars don't always align in our favor, but we try. As far as taped items, attempts are made to fix them in a reasonable amount of time. No it isn't always done quickly. An owner can have his car fixed while he's away for the weekend. Airplanes are different.

Sometimes the inop auto mode of (insert your favorite system here) doesn't get fixed the next day. Sometimes parts aren't available. Sometimes we don't have a qualified vendor where the aircraft is going that night. We know it sucks too. Again, we'd like these systems cleared off our reports. But you're speaking about a scenario when you know the manual side works. There are times the crew refuses to cooperate and we have to check it out. As I've said...sometimes our guys find a fault and other times they do not. If there is no history, it will get signed off if it checks within MM tolerances. Getting accused of pencil whipping if front of our audience was a sucker punch to the people who are trying to get things done. Have a beef with the EMT, not us.

SG

 

[G4dude]

How do you think NJA is just going to offer you money? What do you think will get that pay raise? You're going to have to fight for it.

Right now you want someone else to do the fighting for you. You want someone else to walk the line in Omaha so you don't have to choose a side. Then you can say NJA didn't give me enough so I'm leaving.

But what did YOU do to get enough? I doubt you'll ever leave. You've got a good little thing going on. You can still say the union is screwing you.

You won't acknowledge things are happening to other pilots because they aren't happening to you.

Let me explain this to you. The gulfstream fleet is very very different than all the other fleets.

As we've seen though with your SCAB posts you won't lift a finger to help out. We all know you'll never leave. Yet you'll actively work AGAINST your fellow pilots to ensure that YOU are taken care of.

I knew you were a POS When I first met you, and you have done everything possible to verify my initial opinion.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

8 year old thread people.....

 

[T-1GUY]

Captain Obvious???

 

[Pervis]

8 year old thread people.....

That's how long it took to start negotiations for a successor CBA. Only difference is now we have a spoiled brat wanna be Union buster lawyer at the helm, while before it was simply business with the father of our company.

 

[FLYLOW22]

8 year old thread people.....

Yet, the same issue exists...

 

[Diesel]

I knew you were a POS When I first met you, and you have done everything possible to verify my initial opinion.

Yet you don't know me. We've never flown together. Probably have talked for 5 minutes who knows you didn't make an impression. You will sure make one when you scab though.

You do love to insult me personally and tell me to F off. Like that's going to hurt my feelings lol. In the end though I'd rather be a pos and stand up for something than be you when others say to me on the crew van about your postings, "oh yeah he's an idiot."

You haven't been able to back up any single argument. No experience other than a keyboard and some stereotypes. Pilots have told you privately that your wrong. Your answer is that we're scumbags and you're right. Problem is everyone and literally everyone is telling you you're wrong. Even guys who aren't posting here.

So that's still a yes to scabing and a no to Omaha? Just want to make sure I get the score straight. How's the job search going? Everyone knows you'll never leave. You've got a nice little gig no reason to rock the boat.

Remember my offer to fly you out and put you up in Omaha still stands. I'm even throwing in per diem which should sweeten the cheap pilot in you.

 

[fischman]

Pencil whipping? That's a pretty serious accusation. if you really think this is this case (which it isn't at NJ) then you need to be making formal complaints / inquiry requests.

What department is trying to talk you out of AOG items? It isn't MCC. The guys get reported every time a pilot's feelings get hurt, which lately seems often. Sir, write it up send it in.

The NEF list are approved by numerous entities, are reviewed by the FAA, and the items on those lists don't affect airworthiness. Many still get fixed. Many have to wait until refurb. Scratched countertop due in 2030...so what?

The guys used to ask about pulling circuit breakers because it helps with troubleshooting. This isn't an issue with other operators unless they are intent on slowing progress or hurting the company. Going black and restarting the aircraft solves many problems as you know, but we're not allowed to ask you to do that anymore. Write it up and refuse assisting us, and then when we get there 6 hours later there will be no problem...hence a possible reason you're accusing the company of pencil whipping. Not an approved procedure...how sad, but that's what we deal with.

A pilot reports cabin temp inop in auto, we ask if it works in manual and many times the answer will be "I didn't try". We had one yahoo say "I'm not a test pilot". Really? How are we to narrow things down when the system operates fine on the ground? Thanks buddy.

Go ahead and flame away. You guys tie our hands, then bitch when things don't get fixed right away. I guess it's all part of your game.

Thanks buddy.

GS

Pencil whipping is a reality. I have filed several reports, and as usual the response is "We'll look in to it" and I never hear a thing about it. If I'm seeing it, then everyone else is too. In other words, I believe it is not only a daily occurrence, but an hourly one.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

 

[fischman]

I knew you were a POS When I first met you, and you have done everything possible to verify my initial opinion.

You're really letting him get to you aren't you? Perhaps there is a little guilt behind that anger?

Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

 

[T-1GUY]

Too bad he couldn't funnel some of that anger into supporting his fellow pilots...

 

[Some guy]

Pencil whipping is a reality. I have filed several reports, and as usual the response is "We'll look in to it" and I never hear a thing about it. If I'm seeing it, then everyone else is too. In other words, I believe it is not only a daily occurrence, but an hourly one.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

You have seen it, but it's just your opinion? Who are you reporting this to? Are you going back and asking for followup? Have you tried the CMH FSDO? Can you provide a scenario you have witnessed yourself? Your comment indicates it's happening everywhere, so you must have something.

I was always under the impression you guys were happy that you flew aircraft that were well maintained. I personally apologize to all of you that this is far from the truth.

SG

 

[jtf]

The NetJets traveling mechanics do a great job. I have not seen them doing anything but go out of the way to help, even when their managers have told them to only do what was specifically ordered. I haven't seen anything suspicious at NetJets and EJM repair facilities, or at Cessna Service Centers. I have seen all of the above told to wear blinders when repairing our birds so they wouldn't accidentally find anything else that is broken.

That said, mx control puts tremendous pressure on the contract mx to get the airplanes moving and I firmly believe that many of them are pencil whipping and/ or knowingly doing a little bit and claiming it's all good to go. I've watched NetJets mx tackle specific problems and then watched contract mx do the same repairs without any of the actual fixing part. I've witnessed many unsat things from the contracters. I probably shouldn't be talking specifics there.

I have another mx story that is so heinous that I honestly fear to put it here even on this semi anonymous board. It is so bad that I fear the company would try to hunt me down and possibly find me and fire me. This place makes me sick to my stomach just thinking about all the ways safety had been compromised since RS was shown the door.

 

[fischman]

You have seen it, but it's just your opinion? Who are you reporting this to? Are you going back and asking for followup? Have you tried the CMH FSDO? Can you provide a scenario you have witnessed yourself? Your comment indicates it's happening everywhere, so you must have something.



I was always under the impression you guys were happy that you flew aircraft that were well maintained. I personally apologize to all of you that this is far from the truth.



SG

1) There's legalese in there to protect myself.

2) I have filed several ASAP reports.

3) The CMH FSDO is known by many other FSDO's to be highly corrupt. To rely on action by them is foolish.

4) I will not comment on the specific situations I have personally witnessed.

 

[Some guy]

1) There's legalese in there to protect myself.

2) I have filed several ASAP reports.

3) The CMH FSDO is known by many other FSDO's to be highly corrupt. To rely on action by them is foolish.

4) I will not comment on the specific situations I have personally witnessed.

Believe what you will. Not even sure why I try to talk sense to the same 8-9 haters on this board anyways. Again, sorry the equipment you fly on is so run down.

SG

 

[gutshotdraw]

Believe what you will. Not even sure why I try to talk sense to the same 8-9 haters on this board anyways. Again, sorry the equipment you fly on is so run down.

SG

Easy for you to say when you're nice and comfy at your DESK and we're the ones who have to FLY them.

Believe what YOU will.

 

[ttuite]

Net Jets seems to have the same problems that all other companies have right now. The nice thing is, that is seems that there are pilots there willing to do something about it. That is a good thing. Somebody has to draw the line. It is that drawing of the line that made Net Jets the place to work 7 years ago. The pay was great, the working conditions were great, and the flying was pretty good. Now the rest of the industry has caught up with you pay wise, and you have a bean counter trying to cut costs. You will soon, if not already, see a loss of qualified individuals wanting to work there. I personally would love to leave my ACMI job and work at Net Jets, but would not do so because of the pay cut. I am an FO working at what would be considered a lower tier ACMI carrier, and I would have to take a 30K pay cut to work at Net Jets. With no chance of an upgrade to more money in the left seat, I cannot justify the move. Net Jets was a strong company because they paid their people well, and ran their company right. Now that things have changed I see the whole business eventually crashing to the ground unless they return to what made them great in the first place. Great pay and benefits, along with great maintenance, makes for a great customer experience. The economy is getting better. As it does more companies will want to get away from the inefficiencies of airline travel. Net Jets needs to get their house in order to reap the benefits of this pending need by business. Raise your rates to pay for your increased cost. It is really that simple. Pay people what they are worth and they will be professionals. Don't pay them and they will become something you don't like

 

[Some guy]

Easy for you to say when you're nice and comfy at your DESK and we're the ones who have to FLY them.

Believe what YOU will.

Easy for me to say what? All I did was apologize for the low quality equipment you are flying. Read through all of my my posts, I never said your job was easy.

 

[Some guy]

1) There's legalese in there to protect myself.

2) I have filed several ASAP reports.

3) The CMH FSDO is known by many other FSDO's to be highly corrupt. To rely on action by them is foolish.

4) I will not comment on the specific situations I have personally witnessed.

ASAP reports are reviewed by Safety and the local corrupt FSDO.

What is stopping you from talking to another FSDO? If the CMH techs are fine, then the CMH FSDO isnt who you want to talk to. If you suspect something on the road, call the applicable FSDO. You apparently know many of them anyways.