Strike Vote Called For at NetJets

[Viffer]

OK, Starman is not going to answer my question so I will answer it for him. Is an ALPA airline pilot going to be considered by the NJ pilots a scab if they fly NJ shareholders on an airline flight during a strike? They can't. They also can't answer this question because it disentegrates their whole idea that 135 pilots are scabs, for doing the exact same thing. Starman, you are a coward for not addressing this, and for tieing yourself so tightly to the party line that you would cough us up for your own benefit, without an ounce of concern for accuracy, or the well being of a whole other pilot group. So if you have a better answer to this question speak up, or admit your illogical line of reasoning and get real.

 

[Starman]

h25b,

If our efforts are such a non-issue because charter pilots will ignore them and they aren't worried about recall rights with ALPA, why get your panties in such a bunch? Obviously you must be concerned about it somehow otherwise you wouldn't be posting on this thread.

 

[Starman]

OK, Starman is not going to answer my question so I will answer it for him.

It was a non-sensical question and didn't deserve an answer. Still doesn't.

 

[johnny taliban]

Starman,
it really is a simple question.

 

[h25b]

h25b,

If our efforts are such a non-issue because charter pilots will ignore them and they aren't worried about recall rights with ALPA, why get your panties in such a bunch? Obviously you must be concerned about it somehow otherwise you wouldn't be posting on this thread.

Concerned ??? HARDLY... This is just entertainment, you know baiting some ignorant fool like yourself. Like G200, I find it particularly humorous that you got yourselves in to this mess and seem pretty desperate with this scablist idea. Furthermore, when faced with tough questions on the feasability of this plan of attack you get smacked down like a game of whack-a-mole...

Again I'll try... Who are these guys close to recall worried about screwing up their recall right ??? Delta, United, American, or USAirways... This would be great news for the guys in the Major's Forum ... No panties here (prefer briefs) ...

 

[Viffer]

It was a non-sensical question and didn't deserve an answer. Still doesn't.

It is soon to be a fact of your life and will have an answer regardless. You state that anyone flying shareholders during your strike are scabs regardless of the N number. Well, there are a lot of airline airplanes and crews that will have those shareholders on board. They also are flown by ALPA members. Should we call them and tell them that NJ expects them to refuse any line that has a share holder onboard, or face listing them on your precious scab list?

Of course you can't say that about your big brother ALPA. You are counting on that name to scare the 135 pilots and can't risk alienating them. Now, perhaps you can tell the class exactly what would be the difference between NJ setting their people up on a 121 flight vs a 135 flight?

I know you can answer this. Let's hear it.

 

[Starman]

Starman,
it really is a simple question.

So is "Why does the Porridge Bird lay its egg in the air?" but it has no meaning to this discussion.

 

[h25b]

but it has no meaning to this discussion.

No meaning to the discussion ??? Sir, it goes straight to the heart of your arguement, which is probably why you won't answer ...

 

[Viffer]

So is "Why does the Porridge Bird lay its egg in the air?" but it has no meaning to this discussion.

No, you can do so much better than that. Are you under a union rule not to ever say a word about airlines and scabs? I wouldn't be suprised. Why don't you man up and speak for yourself. This is an anonomous board. Whould you consider an airline pilot a scab or not? We already know your view of 135, and also all your arguements for that position. Your answer is clear as day but yet you can't say it out loud? What is your problem?

Oh, and this whole discussion, all 29 or so pages of it, is directly related to who is and who is not going to be viewed as a scab by you guys.

SPEAK!

 

[Starman]

OK Viffer ,

Since you won't be able to go beddy- bye until I break down a simple concept to you, I'll take the time to do it. An airliner flying a set route prior to a strike can pick up any and all passengers even if they were originally going to fly on the struck carrier because the route existed and the flight was there for other passengers. If the airline added additional flights to cover the demand after another carrier went on strike, those flights would be flying stuck work.

Same situation at Netjets. Airliner flying from ABC to XYZ every day. On June 20th, that airline gets two more passengers because Netjets pilots are on strike. Not struck work.

135 operator sitting on his thumbs gets a call on June 20th that we've gone on strike and they need him to cover a NetJets trip from ASE to PBI. Struck work.

 

[netjetwife]

Johnny, I've covered that in previous posts. The distinguishing factor is the PRIMARY PURPOSE of the flight. None of the airlines that may wind up w/NJ px in their first class sections are making that flight ONLY for them. Those flights are going to be flown regardless of whether or not a few NJ shareholders buy a ticket. On the other hand, flights that NJA ARRANGES with charter companies for the sole reason of flying NJ px, are replacing NJ pilots and are flying struck work. IF the NJ shareholdres make their OWN arrangements, as a separate transaction, then it will not be considered struck work.

 

[Viffer]

OK Viffer ,

Since you won't be able to go beddy- bye until I break down a simple concept to you, I'll take the time to do it. An airliner flying a set route prior to a strike can pick up any and all passengers even if they were originally going to fly on the struck carrier because the route existed and the flight was there for other passengers. If the airline added additional flights to cover the demand after another carrier went on strike, those flights would be flying stuck work.

Same situation at Netjets. Airliner flying from ABC to XYZ every day. On June 20th, that airline gets two more passengers because Netjets pilots are on strike. Not struck work.

135 operator sitting on his thumbs gets a call on June 20th that we've gone on strike and they need him to cover a NetJets trip from ASE to PBI. Struck work.

Well, he can talk! I was wondering what you would come up with in all that time. That was a nice little thought, but completely off base. By your logic, then because an airliner is not 'adding' anything extra then it is no scab. OK. A 135 operator then never adds anything, because they are on demand. So therefore any demand, heavy or light, is business as usual. No scab. You cannot argue 'scheduling' to determine strikebreaking. That is only a nice way for you guys not to have to call ALPA members strikebreakers. Your previous posts state your real thoughts, that any airplane regardless of tail number, flying your shareholders, is flying struck work. I could quote them but don't have the energy to backtrack the thread. By your thoughts, not your unions, any airline crews are scabs.

I walked the picket line with my Dad back in 85 with the United pilots. I am more aware of what scabs are than most, and the affects that a strike have on people and families. I am almost always sympathetic to the union members. Not one pilot I know, who have been on strike take the thought of 135 'scabs' seriously at all. They know exactly what 's what and so does the vast majority of this industry. People like you are so far off center that though it's been entertaining for the last hour playing around here, It is also very sad that those with your opinions are disgracing the overall membership of your union. I sincerely hope that whoever is running that union has a clear view of reality. If not then what should have been a good gig for pilots is going to fail. Seems like that is the fate of just about every union lead flight operation right now. I hope you guys survive everything alright, whatever the outcome. Goodnight...

 

[Starman]

What? No snappy repartè since I answered the idiotic question? Also no one picked up my reference to Firesign Theater. Disappointing. The world is going to hell in a hand basket. I guess I'll adjourn to bed as it's approaching the witching hour.

 

[Starman]

Well, he can talk! I was wondering what you would come up with in all that time.

Actually I was feeding my dog and grabbing a last drink of the evening. After all the whining, I thought I would take a few moments to explain a painfully obvious concept to you. It took about 2 minutes to type out and that was the extent of my in-depth thinking on it.

 

[netjetwife]

I didn't mean to be redundant, guys. I must have been typing my post at the same time. Perhaps you'll feel better hearing it from another pilot, anyway...

 

[TonyC]

So, if UPS goes on strike, FEDEX pilots will not fly brown boxes??

I thought the answer to this question was fairly obvious, but since several of you have asked, I'll spell it out.

N O​

If UPS is on strike, all freight moving in the UPS system becomes struck work. FedEx pilots will not move it.

How does that prevent a UPS customer from shipping his package by FedEx? It doesn't. When the customer walks through the door of a FedEx Service Center, he is a FedEx customer, and it's FedEx freight. There's no way I can go through an entire airplane examining each box and letter and determining who shipped it and whether it would have been shipped via UPS were they not on strike. That's ludicrous. However, it's a simple matter if the container is marked UPS.

It's not that complicated a concept, really. IF COMAIR strikes, Delta pilots don't fly COMAIR trips. If American Strikes, American Eagle doesn't pick up American flights. That doesn't prevent the customers from going to the Delta counter and buying a ticket on Delta mainline, nor does it prevent a customer from flying an Eagle leg. Of course, there's only so much capacity, so somebody might be left behind.

Likewise, if NetJets strikes, it would be considered flying struck work to fly a NetJets trip. Remember Viffer when he said,

And yes, we know exactly who we are flying, and if they are NJ customers.

Good. That makes it simple. You'll know exactly what you're doing, then.

Nothing prevents those customers from buying a ticket on JetBlue, Delta, or Southwest. Maybe that's what you should practice advising them.



.

 

[h25b]

I guess what we end up with here on both sides is a perpetual state of denial and what will be will be. People like myself and MANY others are being quickly turned off to the whole deal. I haven't run in to a single NetJets pilot yet that buys in to this idea anyway so this is what it is.... A hollow threat that will simply alienate the group as a whole from the rest of the general aviation community. If you choose to bury your head in the sand and ignore the basic fact that there's already a ton of ill-will out amongst the rest of said community, well go ahead...

Bottom line is that the Part 91 corporate guys have viewed you as scabs for years and I can pretty much guarantee this is going over like a fart in church with the 135 crowd (NOONE CARES, I CAN TELL YOU THIS FIRST HAND)...

So one last question from the brilliant minds of TonyC and Starman. Types like yourselves and netjetwife are asking for support from the rest of the aviation community while simultaneously threatening them. How's that work ??? Past experience would tell me that cozying up in support of you guys would be like asking the Boston Strangler for a neck rub.

I would really like to see your logic on this one explained. What we be in it for these 135 guys/gals to risk their jobs for your cause ??? Preferential interviews at NetJets ? Access to strike pay ? Hardly ... And please don't give me the "rising tide raises all boats" B.S., please ... This union tag-line makes me about as sick as your other old standby, "brother".

 

[Viffer]

Likewise, if NetJets strikes, it would be considered flying struck work to fly a NetJets trip. Remember Viffer when he said,

Good. That makes it simple. You'll know exactly what you're doing, then.
.

It really is that simple. I will be knowingly flying a customer just the same as I have been flying that same customer all along. NJ is a customer of ours, has been and will be in the future. I could really care less why they are booked with us, they will still get the service we provide. Your problem is a lack of understanding of the scope of your labor dispute. The corporate flying community does not revolve around NJ. Your sell off trips are already a revenue stream for 135. The fact that your pilots are on strike or taking days off matters not to me, or any 135 pilot. We fly our trips, as assigned, as always. Since you keep using freight as an example think about this. UPS, if on strike, would themselves send out all the packages they had when the strike took effect, and that would include all the other freight operators, charter freight operators etc. You, by your definitions are breaking the strike if you personally flew those boxes. It is no different with people instead of boxes. It is just so much easier for the simple minded to view 135 as scab activity, as they are not able to think through the whole issue for themselves and spew the union line to the T. This kind of attitude are also the reason you couldn't function in the 91 world. We have to care about our companies future, and everything we do is to promote a safe, stable, and profitable business. That we can do that and negotiate a real salary in the process is a testament to independent thinkers. Of which you are certainly not. Clear your head and get over the 135 issue. You will feel much better about life afterwards.

 

[Capt1124]

I have been around the aviation industry for long enough to have seen this thing a few times. You can't simply redefine what scabbing or strikebreaking is to suit your purposes in this situation. And all the chest puffing and threats don't really impress anyone. It just makes you look desperate and pathetic.

Maybe you should have looked for a better job instead of taking low wages and hoping the union would somehow get you the money you wanted.

Concentrate on negotiating a decent pay package rather than threatening people in a weak attempt to improve your leverage. Remember this will be over in a few months but the professional reputation of every NetJet pilot will be affected by this for years.

 

[pilotyip]

E Gads! another voice of reality, Capt 1124 don't you know you are not suppose to deal with reality on this board.