Strike Vote Called For at NetJets

[h25b]

What a lack of class. The pilots had nothing to do with your fear of "shut down," but they are the ones you/they hold accountable?

Wasn't my decision... Just giving you an example of the contempt that already exists as you set off down the road of this scab-list idea... Right or wrong this is what happens at more than a few departments... Seen it in action.

Lack of class ??? I think you should point that assertion to ASAP where it truely lies. You're speaking of accountability, you and netjetwife must smoke from the same pipe. Tell me how the 135 guys/gals are accountable for your situation. They have nothing to do with this.

Your "lack of class" and accountability BS is kind of a pot call ... Like I said in a previous post, I hope you do get a good deal for exactly the reason you state. It'll make it harder for NetJets to come in to traditional flight departments and make their case.

 

[Traderd]

scab list-

I went looking for a pilot scab list online- I found one- from 1989 Australian Air strike. That was it. There were so many names on it, I wondered how many people were on strike. All other web sites I found have been deleted.



Am I missing something? Where is this "scab list?"

I tried some time back to ascertain if such a list exists or if it is an urban myth. I asked specific questions concerning origin, maintenance, distribution, etc on this forum. The only response I received displayed a list of names that were supposedly Freedom Air pilots. It may be that this item is the property of ALPA or some other union and as such is not available to non-union workers.



My guess is that it is an intimidation tactic. If not, NetJetWife could you give me some info on such a list and its operation? Who exactly is responsible for compiling, distributing and maintaining the list? Is there is a statute of limitations with such a list? If a charter pilot were to be added to such a list and subsequently be hired at another charter operation, would that entire organization be added to the scab list? Is the list only meaningful at the level of employment represented by the major airlines?



Any chance it is an empty threat?

 

[NJA Capt]

Wasn't my decision...

But you were more than welcome to throw it around to suit your needs. I challenge you to find in my post, ANYTHING regarding ASAP, SCABS, or anything not directly referred to in YOUR post. Don't go dragging that other mess in there to distract people, I said nothing about that and I'm not getting drug into that debate. Nor did I say anything about 135 guys being accountable.....I said your company's decision to blame NJA pilots for their dislike of NJA (the company) was, to use your word, juvenile.

Now here's an ironic observation:
A few short years ago, non-EJA pilots were complaining about our union not having a backbone, not doing anything, and our low pay.

NOW:
Now we have a union in place that has some real teeth and are doing something about "the problems," and suddenly we are being accused of asking for too much.

 

[Live4flyng]

I've worked at a couple major corporations, at one of which NetJet's pilot resumes automatically hit the shredder because your company tried unsuccessfully to shut us down twice. Not threatening you at all, that would be juvenile

I'm trying to understand your logic. In this post you talk about shredding NJA pilot applications for the actions of the company (NJA) trying to "shut you down twice".

If Netjets was so mean to you, why would you even consider doing a charter for them? After all, they tried to shut you down "twice"!

I guess your answer is to shred applications, maybe that will prevent Netjets from trying to shut you down a third time. Sounds a little juvenile to me.

 

[Starman]

Bye bye transpac.

 

[h25b]

But you were more than welcome to throw it around to suit your needs. I challenge you to find in my post, ANYTHING regarding ASAP, SCABS, or anything not directly referred to in YOUR post. Don't go dragging that other mess in there to distract people, I said nothing about that and I'm not getting drug into that debate. Nor did I say anything about 135 guys being accountable.....I said your company's decision to blame NJA pilots for their dislike of NJA (the company) was, to use your word, juvenile.

Now here's an ironic observation:
A few short years ago, non-EJA pilots were complaining about our union not having a backbone, not doing anything, and our low pay.

NOW:
Now we have a union in place that has some real teeth and are doing something about "the problems," and suddenly we are being accused of asking for too much.

Obviuosly you and netjetwife are cut from the same mold.

You all stand around the battle cry of, "MY UNION SPEAKS FOR ME!!!" And then when they come out with this kind of garbage you all scatter like ants. I am not doing anything to suit my needs (at least on this board) ... Read my posts !!! I was just pointing out the fact that there's already some bad blood out there that might make your present course of action inherently unwise. As for not getting drug in to that debate ... Well sir you can't have it both ways, your union speaks for you or it doesn't. I'll leave you to figure that one out on your own . Your union is the one drawing battle lines in the sand and forcing the 135 guys who have no "dog in the fight" in to this mess. So it would seem somewhat hypocritical for you to pick and choose which messes you want to be a part of...

One of your own pilots agreed with me in one of the previous posts by saying, "we're poking the wrong bear..."

Your union finally having some teeth I guess is commendable, what's being questioned is who they bite with them. I would recommend putting your jaws around your company and not some poor b&*tard charter pilot trying to put food on the table. Again, you guys are picking this fight and are the ones throwing things around. Get a clue ...

If Netjets was so mean to you, why would you even consider doing a charter for them? After all, they tried to shut you down "twice"!

AGAIN, read my posts... I think I even stated that our aircraft has never been assigned a NetJets sell-off. Astonishing that you don't understand.. Most charter pilots HAVE NO CHOICE in which trip they accept. It's "fly it or find another job." Good gravy, if this is truely the depth of your understanding of the industry, you've got big troubles...

 

[Traderd]

I tried some time back to ascertain if such a list exists or if it is an urban myth. /QUOTE]

If you couldn't find the master aviation scab list on the internet, you weren't looking very hard. Here's the first one that popped up on my search: http://www.fracpilot.com/Scabs%20by%20Name%20May04.PDF

Thank you very much. I had found the frac pilot website but didn't see the link. My mistake.

Looks like it is a list of "scab" airline pilots linked to a fractional pilot's website. It doesn't indicate who is responsible for the maintenance of the document and I don't see anyone credited for the document itself. Does everyone in the industry have confidence in the accuracy of this document? Is this the one being used by the CPs at all of the majors and fractionals?

It still seems to be an unworkable concept. More for emoitional support than actual results. If there are actual results that can be attributed to this tactic, how are they manifested and how are they verified? Aren't the salaries commanded by pilots currently on the decline? I would assume what is sought are results. Do you believe that without scab lists your situation would be even worse?

Right now, it would appear there are too many pilots chasing too few seats. Efforts like this look like an attempt to control the price paid for a commodity in oversupply at the point of consumption.

I would not risk dollars in a belief that this would work with any commodity, unless regulation of the commodity is a given. It would seem to be more effective to work at controlling the supply of the commodity, as is done with the AMA.

 

[G100driver]

Crack's me up that the great Clay Lacy is on this list.

 

[Ultra Grump]

I think that would be unwise. Many lawers would love for this kind of case. If this does happen, it happens behind the scenes.

It may, but ultimately how would that affect the scab trying to get hired? Usually (and especially, in our case) it's an HR person's call who gets hired, and they typically don't know or care about scab lists.

Do you J.S. a lot with NJA? More details needed.

No, but this isn't the only job I've ever had. I jumpseated every week in my previous job.

IF they are on board (i hate that term) with SU, I am giving them a pass.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. These guys are scabs, yet you'll "give them a pass." So what was the punishment (for lack of a better word) for them being scabs? Nothing.

Virtually every airline has scabs on their lists. So what exactly are the disincentives for these guys to go to work and do their jobs?

120+K a year. That may do it.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. I was asking since there seems to be no real teeth in the scab list, why shouldn't the charter guys go to work and do their jobs just like every other day?

To me, if you cross our line, take a job flying our airplanes, you are a scab. Period. This is how it has always been and how it should remain. If you are a charter pilot flying your company's plane on a chartered trip (no matter who chartered it), you are not a scab. That's my opinion, and in my opinion we'd be foolish to try to label charter guys just doing their jobs as scabs.

 

[Hogprint]

As I stated yesterday:

The actions of few, unfortunately weigh heavy on the multitude. Law Suits, Scab Lists, Seniority List stable threats and self righteous claims of being superior to all others have left NJA pilots with little support from their fellow corporate pilots and the aviation community as a whole.

Point well taken with your post, but you have to drop this "self righteous claim of being superior to all others"...

That is Madison Ave. talking, not any NJA guys that I have seen on this board. Somewhere about 100 posts ago, someone spelled it out for you, but I will do it again...we are just using the company's tag line against them.

Negotiations 101.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Hog,

I think a guy like you falls into the 98% group, which I have nothing less than complete respect for.

Its always the 2% that takes thing overboard. I agree, most NetJets Pilots carry themselves with honor and do not look down on others.


PS. I was Army for 8 1/2 years, and I know what a hogprint is......

Take care

 

[Hogprint]

Thanks for the support Wolfpack and thank you for your service to our country!

I hope that the path we choose will be satisfactory to all parties involved directly or indirectly.

ps.
Since your a brother in arms, you wont get a hogprint! Unless of course your a Blackhawk bubba!

 

[GVFlyer]

Crack's me up that the great Clay Lacy is on this list.

I found a Congressional Medal of Honor recipient on it: Michael Joseph Novosel.

GV

 

[G100driver]

I found a Congressional Medal of Honor recipient on it: Michael Joseph Novosel.

GV

I will have to look that up in the book that Gulfstream gave me ...

 

[G100driver]

Looks like it is him. Profile matches.

Too bad he tarnished himself. Ironicly he earned the Medal of Honor after he scabbed. Trying to redeam himself? Probably not.