Strike Vote Called For at NetJets

[G100driver]

Starman, you are a pu$$Y. Answer the question, "yes" or "no"

Are you going to put a current ALPA member who is flying 135 on the scab list if his is dispatched to fly a NJ trip? "yes" or "no"

So far your non-aswers about struck work bla bla are dodging the question. Me thinks that the IBT has zero clout on this issue and you are merly resorting to intimidating people. Perhaps you might have better luck with baseball bats.

While still supporting the NJ cause you sound like a fool.

 

[G100driver]

And current union members wonder why so many pilots are resistant to union shops.

If fools like starman did not make such idiotic statements perhaps places like JB, Flight Options and the like might be more open to collective bargaining. Your goal should be to show pilots what a strong group can do for the insdustry. Not going rouge and make un-substantiated statements that mearly erode the support that you have outside of NetJets.

Good luck anyhow, you guys desrve better than what you are getting ... even if fools represent you.

 

[prpjt]

If UPS is on strike, all freight moving in the UPS system becomes struck work. FedEx pilots will not move it.
How does that prevent a UPS customer from shipping his package by FedEx? It doesn't.
.

Tony, a serious question. Are you saying that UPS as a company would be denied becoming a Fed Ex customer? I think that's what you are saying.

I was just wondering, if this is the case, how your illustrious leader planned to carry out his plan to move boxes on pax carriers a few years back. Thanks.

Hope this isn't too much of a hijack.

 

[414Flyer]

Oh come on. Some of you are living in the past when words meant something and had specific meanings.

You are forgetting its a new touchy feely world, where words can mean anything you want it to be, meanings are flexible, with no real definitions if you dont think so. Its your feelings and emotions about it that are important. If you feel someone is a scab, thats all that matters anymore.

Its 2005, get with it

 

[LXJ31]

Let me get this straight, there will be list detailing who decided to keep paying their mortgage by flying an NJA sell-off, but where is the list for those who honored their strike by getting fired for not flying the same trip? Is that the part about the rising tide and goodwill etc.?

I think they are being short sighted on this issue; if such a strike occured and NJA started chartering left and right, the market forces would be the NJ pilots' best friend at that point. The supply of charter lift would dry up, the price would go through the roof and the unfortunate passengers would be getting scheduling windows measured in days, not hours. It would be a crushing expense. If NJ just stopped flying all together, they would lose customers, but they would be holding on to their cash. (I don't think that many customers would bolt as they'd be getting raped on the selling price if too many sold at the same time. They would buy 25-50 hour cards on the other operators.) On top of that, if normal NJ customers are not having their trips sold off, alot of those folks will fly First Class on 121 in the interim, they might decide its not so bad and worth the inconveniences relative to bizjet flying.

I'd like to see NJ pilots get paid more, but threatening pilots beyond arm's length fails, in my view, the cost-benefit.

 

[Boeingman]

This thread is like a car accident. You just have to stop and take a look.


G200, Johnny, Viffey, H25...I noticed they still can't answer some of your very simple direct, logical questions. G200 made a good point about taking pay at such a lower industry rate to begin with. It seems like a hypocritical point of view to be in a position now to demand help and honor a very flimsy position since lowwages at NetJets has affected the pilots they are now asking for support.

El Chup,I call BS on your story. 1) In our indoc and "familiarization" a.k.a penance tour, it was clearly made known to us that type of behavior would have serious consequnces up to termination. 2) There is no real surface animosity between the scabs and the "crawlbacks". The guys who returned, like myself came back knowing what the score was. 3) How did you get a jumpseat on CAL working for a frac company?

ALPA support? That has to be the funniest idea posted so far. ALPA can not even support it's own members, let alone you guys. I'm not sure who is pumping this union brotherhood, honor our line at all costs sunshine up your collective arse's, but you guys are seriously out of touch if you think a walkout would even be remotely successful. Take it from somebody that spent 25 long months on strike in an airline environment where the lines in the sand were, in theory, more defined. Those lines shift very rapidly the minute the picket line goes up. How about all those Delta pilots tripping over themselves to fly extra sections when Eastern Walked? What about our brothers at United in Denver or Eastern in Houston during our strike?

There are to many ways to circumvent your flying guys. To many pilots that have zero recourse if ordered to fly or protections if they refuse, to many pilots out of work (huge miscalculation in 1983 for CAL ALPA). Further, this is a bitter pill to swallow, you don't own the airplanes. That QS tail registration on the surface may seem like a benefit, but all that it takes is a simple transfer of the aircraft to a new corporation or sale of aircraft and you are SOL. Assuming the walkout even was able to withstand the test of time to allow that to happen.

I would just hate to see people throw their careers away for nothing. Well, I guess as G200 said for 1/3 of the industry rate anyway. To leave the cockpit in this environment is insane. Your efforts would be much better served to keep intense pressure on negotiations through all available means.

 

[G100driver]

Boeing, excellent reality check.

BTW I think Slowto250's post was sacasm directed that the ridiculous posts about scabbing ect.

 

[Boeingman]

Boeing, excellent reality check.

BTW I think Slowto250's post was sacasm directed that the ridiculous posts about scabbing ect.

Thanks.

After re reading his post, you are most likely right so I am going to edit that out.
I was getting a little cross eyed reading through all this. I guess that is what happens when your jaw has dropped to the point where it stretches the eye lids

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Boeingman - excellent post.

 

[h25b]

You're assuming that we don't know what screening method Netjets uses to approve vendor aircraft? You're assuming that we don't have access to the list of vendors that provide supplemental lift for Netjets? You're assuming that the screening information for those companies including pilot names isn't available to us?

I'm telling you that we have that info. How are your assumptions now?

Did everyone notice that Starman (a.k.a. Mr. Intelligence) deleted this post due to "drunken ramblings" ???

Perhaps some of his "brothers" are reigning him in a bit ?

Care to comment Starman ?

 

[G100driver]

Either that or the Macallan was talking to him last night.

 

[TonyC]

Tony, a serious question. Are you saying that UPS as a company would be denied becoming a Fed Ex customer? I think that's what you are saying.

You are correct. During the UPS Teamsters strike of 1997, UPS did not use FedEx to move UPS freight. The UPS pilots union (IPA) supported the strike and refused to fly UPS freight. UPS freight was stuck in trucks and airplanes, in warehouses, on ramps and loading docks, etc., around the world. The only freight that was moved was moved by UPS managers.

That's not to say that savvy customers didn't flood FedEx service centers and become instant "loyal" customers of FedEx. Certainly there were many customers whose allegiances were altered.

Similarly, NetJets customers can always buy a ticket on Delta, American, or Greyhound, for that matter.

I was just wondering, if this is the case, how your illustrious leader planned to carry out his plan to move boxes on pax carriers a few years back. Thanks.

Excellent observation. You've observed one of the many reasons Fred had no chance of carrying through on those threats/promises. I assure you that it was nothing more than a publicity campaign to prevent FedEx customers from abandoning FedEx as UPS customers had abandoned UPS, and a bluff to scare pilots that didn't know any better. You simply cannot do what FedEx does every night using someone else's belly freight space. Facts aside, his scare tactics worked. You should Google "Silver Anvil" 1998 FedEx and have a read. Short version: the campaign/charade landed the PR company the highest award in public relations, the presitigious Silver Anvil award given by the Public Relations Society of America. (Interestingly, IPA won an award for their campaign against UPS. Hopefully we've learned a lot since then.)

Smoke and mirrors.




.

 

[rice]

Just a Couple of Thoughts

First off, Grizz/Deisel/El Chup,
You guys might want to get a leash around Starman before he really screws the pooch for all at NJ. You might want to check his gear for that infamous "pipe" too because it sure seems like he's been taking some heavy hits lately .
I kinda wonder if he's really an NJA pilot or just some company troll sent here to stir the pot because his rantings are so illogical. Either way it is some pretty good entertainment for a lazy day.
As I was reading this thread I started wondering about the owners and their thoughts about a potential strike. They may not give a rat's a$$ about the crews but I'm sure most if not all are aware that their aircraft may not be available for them in the near future. I would guess that most of the owners have been in contact with the company and are making some type of contingency plans if there should be a work stoppage.

Does anyone know if there is some type of escape clause for the owners if NJA cannot perform to their contractual obligations? Seems to me that a whole bunch of "Joe Millionaire" types might just bailout on the Frac plan if a strike inconveniences them. There are many other avenues for them to pursue which are just as safe and can be less expensive than NJA. What has ASAP/SU/1108 (whatever) done to communicate to the OWNERS (besides the billboard at TEB) that they regret any possible inconvenience?
I think that Starman and the others who share his views ought to spend less time accusing the 135 guys of possible SCAB issues and more time on letting the OWNERS know how much the pilots at NJA appreciate them as loyal customers.

 

[netjetwife]

How do we know they haven't communicated their concerns to the owners? I rather think some of them have read the newspaper ads and articles, billboards, brochure and picket signs produced thus far. Were any of US told of those plans before they took place? I wouldn't underestimate the abilities or determination of SU.

 

[johnny taliban]

I thought the answer to this question was fairly obvious, but since several of you have asked, I'll spell it out.

N O​

Tony,
thats great and all but I couldn't help but notice that you failed to address the union issue. You know, the union you HAVE, and the union I DO NOT HAVE. Could you please explain to me and everyother 135 driver how it is we are suppose to refuse to fly Netjet trips if our companies book them? It sure is easy to preach "integrety" and "character" when you KNOW your not gonna get fired. Takes a real big man to refuse to fly brown boxes with that union of yours .

Johnny

 

[TonyC]

Tony,
thats great and all but I couldn't help but notice that you failed to address the union issue. You know, the union you HAVE, and the union I DO NOT HAVE. Could you please explain to me and everyother 135 driver how it is we are suppose to refuse to fly Netjet trips if our companies book them? It sure is easy to preach "integrety" and "character" when you KNOW your not gonna get fired. Takes a real big man to refuse to fly brown boxes with that union of yours .

Johnny

As ignorant of 135 operations as I have been accused of being are some of you when it comes to the operation of a union. Being a member of a union does not protect anyone from being fired. It improves the odds of getting the job back, but there's no guarantee. We've had quite a few fired.


How do you refuse to fly NetJet trips? Well, I suppose you could say, "I'm sorry, but I can't fly that trip." I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I would find it too distracting to fly struck work to be able to safely accomplish the flight. Frankly, I think safety is very important, and I would hope your employer agrees.

I don't think anybody in this thread has threatened anybody else as much as they've attempted to spell things out, inform people of what's what. Once you've got all the facts, you make your own choices, you do what your conscience dictates, and you live with what you do. Nobody said doing the right thing was always easy.



.

 

[h25b]

As ignorant of 135 operations as I have been accused of being are some of you when it comes to the operation of a union. Being a member of a union does not protect anyone from being fired. It improves the odds of getting the job back, but there's no guarantee. We've had quite a few fired.


How do you refuse to fly NetJet trips? Well, I suppose you could say, "I'm sorry, but I can't fly that trip." I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I would find it too distracting to fly struck work to be able to safely accomplish the flight. Frankly, I think safety is very important, and I would hope your employer agrees.

I don't think anybody in this thread has threatened anybody else as much as they've attempted to spell things out, inform people of what's what. Once you've got all the facts, you make your own choices, you do what your conscience dictates, and you live with what you do. Nobody said doing the right thing was always easy.

Please, it's starting to get late and I just ate. So we're down to the old reliable, "let your conscience be your guide" huh ? I'd invite you to take a look at the 135 forum where it would seem everyone has already made up their mind. Your mental if you can't understand that. Distracting, I think most will find it entertaining.

As for a union getting a person their job back... That's not always a good thing, I reference your FedEx dudes in TLH. Only in a union shop would a guy expect to go back to work after wrecking a 727 while deviated from SOP. In case your wondering, NO I am not infallable, but I do operate my aircraft professionally at all times according to S.O.P. and would expect anyone in my department to do the same or expect to be terminated (especially if they totalled an aircraft in the process). That's all, done trying to enlighten dim skulls.

 

[Starman]

Either that or the Macallan was talking to him last night.

It was Bookers but the effect was the same.

 

[TonyC]

As for a union getting a person their job back... That's not always a good thing, I reference your FedEx dudes in TLH. Only in a union shop could a guy go back to work after wrecking a 727 while deviated from SOP . In case your wondering, NO I am not infallable, but I do operate my aircraft professionally at all times according to S.O.P. and would expect anyone in my department to do the same or expect to be terminated (especially if they totalled an aircraft in the process) . That's all, done trying to enlighten dim skulls.

Well, since you'll never make such an egregious mistake, it's easy to condemn those guys, right?? (I'd be interested to hear which part of SOP you think they deviated from.)

FedEx doesn't just fire guys for crashing airplanes. FedEx fires Captains for refusing to carry a jumpseater. FedEx fires Captains for refusing to ride on an airplane that he feels is in danger due to a typhoon overhead. FedEx fires Captains for making judgment calls based on the best available information at the time and at the place. FedEx fires Captains for taxiing too slowly. The list goes on. Don't lecture me on whether it's good or bad for a union to get a pilot's job back. You apprently have no clue.

Either way, it's not relevant to the topic at hand.

 

[h25b]

Well, since you'll never make such an egregious mistake, it's easy to condemn those guys, right?? (I'd be interested to hear which part of SOP you think they deviated from.)

FedEx doesn't just fire guys for crashing airplanes. FedEx fires Captains for refusing to carry a jumpseater. FedEx fires Captains for refusing to ride on an airplane that he feels is in danger due to a typhoon overhead. FedEx fires Captains for making judgment calls based on the best available information at the time and at the place. FedEx fires Captains for taxiing too slowly. The list goes on. Don't lecture me on whether it's good or bad for a union to get a pilot's job back. You apprently have no clue.

Either way, it's not relevant to the topic at hand.

Does it matter which part of the S.O.P. they deviated from?

No, not really... This has been well covered in every CRM course I've EVER had as a proven way to bend metal/kill people. Evidently the NTSB found it relavent, it was one of their contributing factors.

FedEx doesn't just fire guys for crashing airplanes ???

From the looks of their record as of late, maybe they should. Who knows, might work.